It's amazing to listen to L.A. Woman and hear such a mature Morrison and the Doors, way stripped down,blues. Also by adding musicians Jerry Scheff and Marc Benno we get a new flavor and collaboration like never before. This album took gut's by all parties involved and it took gut's from Paul Rothchild to walk away. A lot of the music from the late 60's an early 70's was overproduced and The Doors went back to basics for L.A.Woman, Morrison sounds more at ease and comfortable within himself on this album, he's shed the leathers and is looking at his artistic makeup in a very different light,no lizard king, more like a man with the blues who has the writing skills and voice to deliver it to the masses, backed by a powerhouse band, guys that read his face. The lizard king shed his skin on this album, he comes off raw but his voice is perfect for what he wanted to convey. The Changeling is a link in to the mind of Morrison, want change,need change,only I can change myself,I'm strong,hear me I'm gonna do it,see me change.L.A. Woman is an epic song played at every Lakers game,played on every radio station,played by all of us on our I pods,but to me the naked truth lies in The Cars Hiss By My Windows amd Morrison whispers and hums with distant and vacant thoughts,Little Walter sounds creep thru a century quickly being taken over by computers, conglomerates and war without draft, numb. Hyacinth House remains a glorious relic, a gift to those that are alive today,a lament.I think this album contains a Morrison driven band,no more acid,no more tricks,finally Morrison stripped his persona down to someone he be at peace with,his blues singing is excellent. This is what I had to say as an observation of a great band and a great man.

Ps, Morrison hit a record 32 tecate beers one day recording this album,my boy.

DB POST

It was Paul's last duty as their producer, to simply sit down and let the crew run the ship. They knew what to do at that point. I've watched both Paul and Bruce at work in the studio. Masters of the craft, but very different in their approach. In this case, the end result speaks for itself.



Jim signed out of this band at the top of his game, imo. It all came together with LA Woman, and he could walk away knowing he did the best he could and that he gave everything he had. After that, he wanted to return to the more private world of film and poetry.

Great observation...I agree.

I have been listening to the LA Woman album too and Waiting for the sun, another album with great songs but IMO I like Morrison hotel as it has a slight blues and jazz feel and was a comeback album for the doors at the time. LA woman does have some mediocre cuts on it but pretty significant in style. Morrison has a great voice on the first album which was never to be repeated again, it just had a nice sound and technology to balance it out but Morrison hotel for me anyday.

OK calm down already. Just kidding.

Preach it, brother! What a Doors fan wouldn't give to hear their final performance on stage. Robby's use of the wah wah hooked me on The Changeling as a kid. The live version with Jim is visceral. They really open up LA Woman and extend it to a whisper and build it up again. I wonder if the Doors didn't realize that this form of musical structure is what bored them to break up on stage as the final nail in their coffin. It's hard to believe Jim alive, and continuing with the Doors. The speculation is what kills me. Retaining what exists seems the most important. And your assessment of their final album with Jim I can agree left the listener begging for more music. And that begging is what I believe really turns Doors fans on is the idea they can create their own thoughts into meaningful consumption for people to take away with and do the same but in their own way. But the Doors will always live in the darkness. I feel the Doors were best described in Rolling Stone (a rag I never read) simply as the dusky jewel in the crown of rock and roll, and one of its' brightest. I've been drinking tonight.

Very good post Tim. L.A Woman is my favorite Doors album. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it.

On any given day I'll waffle around on Doors albums,there's something exceptional in all of them but I do find resolve and a culmination in LA Woman,the loss of fear to have to prove themselves,content over production technique,freedom.

The difference between Jim 1967 and Jim 1971 are night and day. If nobody told you they were same person, you'd never know it.

Very nice and accurate post...

however...jim was a blues man from the beginning...he couldn't help it...he was indeeded to ray

the difference in this album i think lies in taking out a spice and the soup tastes different...no Rothschild's hello blues...I personal think that is the difference...a mature jim, i'm sorry that just boggles the mind...

When I got to know him, he was mature. I can't relate to whoever he was before, say, the end of 1969 - all the drunk antics and what not, that made him appear like a doofus. You had to be on your intellectual toes to have a conversation with him, trust me. He and Paul Rothchild were both exceptionally smart men, let alone Jac Holzman. That was the interesting part of the Doors, that Jim and Ray, at the least, were college graduates. Not common in those days. Jagger had some advanced education, as did Lennon, but rock music was not associated with college puddings.

So he was mature...i took him to be an incurable adolescent not wishing to take responsibility for his actions...

What sets jim apart from many of the jim wannabees is the fact he was educated and more to the point i think is that jim read and memorized over 1000 books in his life...try that on a full belly of beer...

I agree with you about Jim being a blues man but Ray has nothing to do with that,you either got the blues or you don't.Morrison didn't rely on his old persona to create this album,he stripped away the sex appeal,he confronted himself and challenged his knowledge and power of the written word. Yes he always was an old blues man from the beginning and we can hear that in all the albums,but in LA Woman he discarded the old tricks and exposed the vulnerable part of himself like he never had done before, he in many way's wrote a personal hard look at himself good and bad,he confronted himself and put it out for all to hear. This is what only a true artist can do, purge and purify and move on.

After Jim and I had our first meeting, which I think you probably know about, he did in fact try and find me to apologize for his behavior. He took responsibility for his actions in that case at the least. I believe he also tried to contact Janis to apologize to her for behaving badly, and may have done so. That could have been something that Paul Ferrara wrote about. I haven't read that book though.

There are many people, Jim wanna-be's or just Doors fans, who somehow lack that quality after offending people. The old, "Hey, I'm sorry, I was out of line." Goes a very long way.

Morrison knew of Camus and Sisyphus,he may have out thought the great thinkers,Sarte,Kirkegard,and so many more. If so he completed his life in a shorter span than most but he was fulfilled by his action and art and free to leave at his will.

Oh so true. Whether he left at his will remains debatable, but Jim enjoyed a good debate. That's what minds are for.

Thanks always Mews for your steadfast kindness and I'd really like to thank Diane and Jim for being stand up people in a position that isn't that easy,thank you both.It's got to be hells bells as I know your both devoted to The Doors and have your own strong opinions, you do a great job non the less. Much respect to both of you.TS

yes he was the old blues man.....but i think if he met Robbie first he woulda done flamenco to death...

yeah i heard...after a rape send roses

He didn't rape me and he didn't rape Janis, because if he had, he would have been thrown into jail, at the very least by me. After a rape - run for your life, asshole!

Jim behaved like a drunken boor, and then tried to damage me and prevent me from finding work thereafter. Trust me, there was a great deal more to his apology than just a casual, "Hey, sorry about that." It may very well initially have been motivated by a fear that I would complain to the authorities and have him arrested, I really don't know. However, I had no intention of doing something like that to a person who was obviously creating quite a bit of trouble for himself without my help. All he needed to keep going down that path was to continue to hang around with the obnoxious T. Baker and others who seemed to derive some sort of amusement out of watching Jim make a fool of himself, after they had egged him on to do so.

sorry to hear jim was an asshole to you...sounds like jim was still quite immature around the time u speak of...when did u notice jim was finally maturing, was it how he apologized...

Oh musical, i do not know about your first meeting with jim...is it in a book

you must have alot of stories while working at Electra...got any photos

"The Wasp" a homage to the radio station that played Elvis driven by gravel voiced D.J's long in to the night,radio gave salvation to the absorbant mind of a school boy,Jimmy Morrison. "Rider's on the Storm" a recognition by the seer himself that mass murder was slowly forming and growing in American society,this isn't just a reaction to the Manson murder's but a thought out vision by Morrison,a premonition.He probably was a little afraid of what he knew was coming.TS

Thoughts in time and out of season.

Thank you Mojo. I know John enjoys a good rant and I've always felt forums could exist with them and not turn into flame wars. It'a a balance of always trying to keep ego's and power trips in check...and that goes for mods as well as members. It's not a perfect science, but when you get a good member mix, it's very rewarding. I should also add, we've been given a lot of freedom and latitude over here from the "powers to be" so that has been helpful.

Your work is recognized and your value to us Doors fans is unlimited,more power to you and Diane and John D.Your freedom and latitude is a wonderful thing.Best always.
TS

No, no, no...there's something amiss here. Paul had sensed something he didn't want to be a part of. Why the other Doors held out so long, you know, fame comes in all shapes and sizes. There was something seething there. It's as if nobody wanted to call it quits, nobody wants to throw in the towel, so let's just wait for Jim to die. This is what Paul Rothchilde picked up on. I'm not sure if anybody ever talked to Jerry and Mark about the session itself. It was more like, "So what? Turn the other cheek or look the other way. Give the bass player some!" I guess they were thrilled just to have the chance to play with the mysterious Doors. But the group was in its death throes or maybe even past that. Maybe at that point in time they weren't really sure how the future was going to judge or place them in the greater scheme of things because all of them knew it had gone past something, where society measures value accordingly and when you lose the feelers for value then something worse than chaos awaits you. How do you measure friendship? How do you measure music or art or poetry? What is love? Jim had stepped over that value line a long, long time ago. I guess John, Ray, and Robbie all got what they held out for: a piece of the immortal pie. But be forewarned: there's a Greek myth in here somewhere, and anyone who reads those myths knows the moral of those stories: when you mess with the gods, you lose, but the memories of the gods are greater than the frailties of mortals. Make no mistake about it, L.A. woman is a great album. I bet the Doors could have cranked out albums like that ad infinitum. It was obvious to them that oblviousness had set in, the very rot which is symptomatic of knowing when something is wrong and not admitting it. The public didn't need fooling, it wasn't a thinking, feeling public in those days, it was more like being picked up and being swept along on a wave. The Doors now are the complete opposite of the Doors in 1971. There's been a complete turn around, an about face. It's strange...talk about wavelengths. Something's kindling the Doors myth, this forum is proof of it. What was the Doors message or was there even a message? "Are you a lucky little lady in the City of Lights/ Or just another lost angel, City of Night?"

Knowing Paul Rothchild pretty well at the time, I don't think it was that dramatic. He and Jim were butting heads as usual, but Paul could always get a great studio performance out of him. Paul stuck around for the duration of the first contract with Elektra. He didn't anticipate a seventh album, and had already contracted to work with Janis Joplin. When he and the Doors sat down to discuss LA Woman, Paul simply realized that they could pretty much self-produce, with assistance from Bruce, who had been their engineer, and knew the drill, and Paul went off to work with Janis at Sunset Sound. He didn't need to stay involved. His work with the Doors was over, for the time being.

In fact, Jim was in good spirits, and a lot of the brat behavior was behind him by then. All anyone knew, after LA Woman was completed, was that Jim was going to Paris and most likely would not return to work with the Doors. Nobody expected him to die.

I think that makes perfect sense. With the original contract being for 6 albums.. and Paul having other obligations.. Bruce was certainly competent enough to assist The Doors themselves in producing L.A. Woman.

I didn't know Jim.. but I always sensed that the Jim who emerged after Miami.. The Jim on the L.A. Woman album.. was the real Jim. That's what makes his death shortly after even sadder. I think he was finally starting to 'find' himself.

I like to think that's true. He was a nice guy, underneath all that rock star stuff, and unfortunately most of his fans didn't get to know him as he really was. Whatever happened in Paris, it robbed the world of one of its more unique and valuable people, who had barely begun to live.

Double

Mew's take is on the dot and I'll just finish up with some other info.Paul Rotchild left because he felt the music was lounge music and was beneath his standards,I don't know what you mean by "something seething". The Doors had just fulfilled there contract and signed to do one more album with Electra,I don't think anyone does that and hopes the lead singer dies.The Doors definitly were not in there death throws,they had revived there spirit and Morrison was very stable at this point in time,he exposed his true self and lost the persona that was following him like an albatross.Performing 200 shows a year and constantly traveling sounds like fun but it's very hard work,Morrison worked hard and played hard,he needed a break.If anything was going on it was the the Doors knew Morrison was going to walk away from the group,maybe forever or just a year or so. The Doors aren't like ACDC or Journey,the lead singer is not replaceable,just like Big Brother and the Holding Company,you can't get someone to fill Janis Joplins shoes,to this day her voice is unique and even with all the hype of Joss Stone she's not anywhere in the league of J.Joplin. Morrison knew there was something wrong with his way of life and set out on a path to change that,you know how the story ends,death.Also Jerry Sheff played for Elvis and I don't think he was a Doors fan,same with Benno,these guys are musicians for hire,professional that get paid to lay it down and lay it down good,they did a wonderful job,but they weren't there to kiss Jim's ass,they were there for a paycheck and hopefully some creative collaboration which they got.My take.

Paul tried with LA Woman, but his heart wasn't in it, and he felt Bruce could do it. The approach was to go back to the 'garage band' thing - just play together, and screw all the endless takes. It worked.




Jim had already asked if he could leave in 1968, but Ray talked him out of it, at least according to the film. I was surprised to learn that, but it certainly makes sense. Jim knew he was becoming more and more of a liability.



Once Jim died, the mold was broken. Sure, there are singer/songwriters who are as strong and influential as Jim, but he was unique. And that's what makes a great artist.



Sheff was a valuable addition, in that he could lend his professional abilities, but remain outside the clique. No matter how creative Ray got with keyboards, it's rock 'n' roll, and that needs a bass-line. It was interesting that in the doc, Jim allegedly switched from Elvis as his main vocal inspiration back to Sinatra. I always heard Sinatra myself.

I’ve always had mixed feelings towards L.A. Woman, because it seemed the Doors jumped ship in mid ocean. Let’s face it, the Doors weren’t a blues group; to wave the blues flag at that stage in their careers was tantamount to admitting defeat. I would have thought their exacting musicianship and talent were enough to overcome any obstacle in their way; they didn’t need to go into the blues or any bag. I think the departure of Paul Rothchild hurt the group as a group, Paul provided a stablilizing element that kept them focused and on track; simply stated, they looked up to him. Paul was such a big part of them since their inception; he gave them their joneses in the studio; looked after them musically, artistically without façade or pretense; fed their confidence; articulated their sound. When Paul left, it hurt them in all these areas and more. But what do you do, stand around and gripe about it? Maybe it’s times like these that you find out what you are really made of. They were thrown upon their own resources, with the ever resilient Bruce Botnick manning the studio reins, and Mark Benno and Jerry Scheff thrown in for good measure. Then there was a tamer, more exorcised Jim Morrison, not any worse for wear. L.A. Woman has a grittiness, a starkness, a measured intensity that differs from the first album only in kind. Again, it was tribute to their talent that they pulled it off so readily; conversely, it was entirely possible they could have cut an album like L.A. Woman on a moment’s notice; it was beneath them in some way. There they were, the four of them, staring at each other in their Workshop, without Paul, without the comforts of a studio, fishing for ideas. Can we call the muse down from the heavenly rafters just one more time? Now it becomes more a matter of endurance and resilience, of musicianship and craft, for the muse to even consider honoring you with her presence again. I’m making light of an incredible process, this making of music, ignoring the fact there are four human beings there, trying to bond, trying to become something more than the sum of their parts. But how do you bond with someone the likes of Jim Morrison? The other Doors had been through hell and high water with him up to that point; sure, he had toned down, but he was also unpredictable, capable of flying off at the slightest insinuation. They weren’t going to change him, that’s for sure, so why even try? But maybe this is the saving grace of the entire Doors legacy. That they had tolerate him for so long, put up with his antics and excesses, belies a resilience that I thought the other Doors were entirely incapable of. They weren’t going to abandon or desert him for anything: he is what he is, we are what we are, what the hell are we, anyway? Let’s just do the very thing we excel at, which is make music. Screw Miami, screw booze, screw Paul, screw rock and roll; screw everything but the need to be what we are: the Doors, for better or worse. I’d like to believe that value, art, friendship, won out in the end (beautiful friend); that L.A. Woman is a love letter as well as a farewell letter to Jim. Jim was going to die. They were powerless to stop it; that it happened so soon…BUT, “Are you a lucky little lady in the City Of Light? Or just another lost angel, City of Night, City of Night?

not a blues band...check out their covers...they're all blues

Little Red Rooster
Backdoor man
Gloria

Jim even referred to himself in the song Maggie McGill as an old blues man

but i aswell don't think LA Woman was their best album...it was definitely one of those rare rock albums where everything just comes together and works. But it's basically 2 masterpieces a neat little robbie song and the rest is just jim basically yodelling...but it does leave the audience wanting more

As you say, wormlet, the Doors were definitely into the blues from the get-go. It wasn't all they did, but this is like That Person From New York boldly making the same statement on a recent TV production, while Back Door Man plays in the background. LOL!

Quote

"But how do you bond with someone the likes of Jim Morrison? The other Doors had been through hell and high water with him up to that point; sure, he had toned down, but he was also unpredictable, capable of flying off at the slightest insinuation."


The Doors bonded very well with Jim Morrison,they liked him.Out of the thousands of concerts they performed Jimbo only screwed up a handful due to drunkeness.By testing his limits he also raised the bar for the entire band,much of there live material remains fresh due to the ever changing temperment of Morrison and the other Doors. Some of what your saying is myth in reference to Morrison being totally unmanagable,some is truth,but the fact remains Morrison used his demons to create music,that was his primary goal.Why did the other Doors put up with Morrisons artistic fits?Have you ever heard of having a tiger by the tail? That's what Morrison was,along with the good came some bad and a lot of cold hard cash that's still rolling in today.Let us not forget these guy's were in a rock'n roll band not a church choir.Best
TS

The L.A.Woman album is excellent on vinyl, much fatter than a CD.

maybe we can ask to Bruce Botnick if him known you, but i bet he have no idea who you are. at least stevenson and erwin have courage to let known they name...so what is your name....?

First of all, Ms Stevenson and Ms Erwin are no longer members of this board, so if there's something you want to say in reference to them, you might want to post it on the Official Doors Board, where they are members.
Secondly, I personally don't recall Mewsical ever hiding her real name. I seem to remember she was up front about it from the first time she posted (if I remember correctly she 'introduced herself..)

So..I believe everyone here knows Mewsical's real name... but hmmm... we don't know _yours_. Please have the courage to tell us.

...........so if her don't hiding her real surname maybe you can say....so i'll send a mess to bruce and we can see.....


i have nothing to do with LL i found deeply not right put there obituary by erwin stevenson and melsical43 of people that have nothing to do with the doors.
these are pathetic.

Yes, go ahead. Sally Stevens. British. I worked with Sue Helms. Replaced Ellen Vogt. Bruce will probably recall me sitting at my desk in front of the interior door to Studio B during the day. Not only do I know Bruce, but also Tom Hummer, Brian Ross-Myring, Alan Emig, Tony Beecher, Fritz Richmond.

Pick up a copy of this book - Laurel Canyon: The Inside Story of Rock 'n' Roll's Legendary Neighborhood. Look me up.

Btw, I'm Mewsical. It's Salli, and MizScarlett43.

Now, back in your box before the nurses find you're gone.

What did he say?


Hello, HWY4371!
You were never at the LL? You sound like one of the regulars we used to have there.

Ms. Stevens, you crack me up!

I must say I'm intrigued as to what 'mess' he, she or it is going to send to the long-suffering Bruce! Well, he knew when he started working with the Doors that there was a high likelihood that he would encounter a few unhinged Doors fans! They were there then, they're still here now.

maybe he she or it is another incarnation of jim morrison and is going to send Bruce recording samples...I wish i was bruce

I wonder if bruce will be required to kneel

Any minute now I expect to be excoriated for insulting this poor thing's parents. Just received a threatening email, so stand by for more extreme behavior. Apparently, Manuel has forgotten he apologized to me in September last year.

Manuel?...are u being facetious

PLease don't pick on Sally as she is a wonderful person,if you don't realize that or I don't know that maybe your mentally retarded but we still welcome you,but if your just messing with her? Watch out,she's a lady and treat her as such,understand? No capeshe,ha,think before you write nonsense,we're Doors fans not waste cadets.What and who are you? Play fucking nice.
Tim Silano call me,my number is here like my name,I don't hide neither did Morrison bitch.

I like changeling. About being a quick study and leaving everything and being you. Kind of like being God in a sense, to be the air one breathes, the food you eat, the drink you drink.

For me, when I was a teenager, it meant I could be anything.

I see lizard king... really as meaning Dragon King.

...

And I think he understood and understands something there.

...

Acid is fine if done with a pure heart. When we get older, we don't need any kind of help.


I have taken fifty hard hits at once. Not as bad as taking some good stuff, staying awake, and watching ten hours of ren and stimpy straight.


It can be critical to break aware from cultural and social mores... to find the infinite...