i mean, obviously she was the main love in jim's life. she was there with him despite the obstacles they had...but who was she? what was her family situation? how did she support herself before jim? what were her interests?
she often gets portrayed as this pretty california girl with a dark heroin addiction, but who was she really? i find it hard to find any real information on her...granted she seemed to have been a private person (which i respect whole-heartedly) but i am still curious as to who she was and your thoughts on it.
i figured that since some of the people on this forum actually knew her, and others on this forum have a lot of knowledge and research...it'd be interesting to hear from all of you on this.

Pamela Courson was, in my humble opinion, a young woman who was alot of things, both good and bad. She was beautiful (i've heard people say that photographs did neither her nor Jim justice and i'm quite inclined to believe this), outspoken, jealous, creative, fashionable, dependant, and she had a bad temper.

I think that alot of people conveniently forget that she was young and human, and so for better or worse, people always see her in one extreme or another. You tend to either love Pamela or hate her. I, for one, find her to be terribly fascinating, and so i've spent the greater part of the past couple of years trying to find information on her and pictures of her. I have a clear vision of who i think Pamela was, though i admit that much of it could just be speculation, i could be far off, but i like to think not.

I think that Pamela knew she was attractive, and I think she knew that she could take advantage of that.

I think that Pamela was a sweet girl who's moods could flip like a switch.. and when she was pissed, there was no trying to hide it. If she was displeased, everyone was going to know.

I think that Pamela expected to legally marry Jim and i have heard that she told her mother that she wished they'd conceived. I think she liked children.. this judging by how she is holding Jim's nephew Dylan in that one picture and the fact the she actually babysat Slash from Guns N' Roses.

I think that Pamela liked dark and unusual things.

I think that, had Pamela lived to this day, that she would be very respecful of Jim's artistic vision.. i feel like she would have tried to make the best of his name to the public.

I think Jim frustrated Pam, and i think she dealt with it the best she could. I think she had alot of faith in him.. she believed in him.

thank you, this was really thought out and beautiful..and painted a much clearer picture for me...
i would expect she would have wanted to legally marry him also for the fact that it seemed like she set aside her dreams to be a designer to support jim? i don't know anything about that really, just from what i have read on the forums and books...what are your thoughts on that?

and i had no idea she babysat slash! that's kind of cool actually...for some strange reason.

i find her really fascinating too...i wish i could find more about her...

i also think photographs back then, unless taken by professionals, didn't really do many people justice...

i'd love to hear more...what kind of family did she come from?

I personally don't think that Pam set out to be a designer to support Jim( but i could be very wrong), i just think that Pamela, having such a high interest in fashion, wanted a creative outlet of her own through which she could make her own name and be something more than just Jim's "old lady". In the article for Show magazine that the Themis shoot photos were initally taken, Pamela chose to go by the name "Pamela Roselilly" instead of "Pamela Courson", and i think that that goes a little way for supporting my theory.. she wanted to be known. I can't imagine how it must feel to be seen simply as Jim's "Arm Candy".. his was quite a name to compete with.

Yeah, she babysat Slash, which i very recently found out and i also thought that that was very cool. A rock legend's girl friend taking care of another rock legend in the making. Fascinating stuff, that.

As far as Pam's family, i don't know much about the dynamics of their relationships. I assume (as her family knew Jim) that Pam was not estranged from them in the way that he was with his family. I've also heard a snippet of Corky Courson telling a story that Pam told him about Jim, and so i assume that she kept in at least consistant contact with her family. When Pam and Jim left to Paris, Pam's sister Judith was asked if she could watch over Themis for a while, and i think that her parents were asked to watch Sage the dog.

oh i meant that she set aside her pursuits to support him (as in support emotionally...unlike mary who he ended it with when she went to pursue her own ambitions)....
but this is enlightening, do you have the article? i'd love to see....because i was curious about that, who was this girl aside from him, what was she interested in, how did she want to be known? its a shame she passed away so young just because i feel like most designers and artists don't really come into their own until later on...

i would always read about her cooking for him...for some reason despite her setbacks (addiction-which must have been triggered by some sort of sadness) she seemed to be stable...so it doesn't surprise me that she kept in touch with her family...

thank you again.

Oh, i'm sorry! I misunderstood! You're right. I think that Pam was a support system for him the whole way through.

Here is the article:



I have actually not read about her cooking for him! I mean, it makes sense that she did, of course, but where can i read about that?

I think Pam, despite her wild behaviour, definately craved real stablity with Jim. I don't know what she really felt about his rockstar status, but she did encourage him to retire from the group and concentrate on his film making and poetry interests, and so i'm sure she wanted stability for him, as well.

Pamela, despite appearing very delicate, obviously had alot of strength and vinegar in her. She could match Jim's anger and hold her own against his personality, and i'm sure he found that very appealing. We know that he admired that in Mewsical, and i'm sure that that was just a trait that he respected in anyone he met.

And you're welcome.

Hadn't seen that article before.

I love the quote

"Pamela's clothes are weapons, ornaments, and protection."

By all accounts Pam Courson was not a junky,she was a chipper,some one that snorted heroin on occasion,she liked her weed.Pam came from Orange County California,her parents well respected people,her dad Corky was the physical education teacher at the local highschool.
When Pan decided to hit Los Angeles she landed jobs as a model for car magazines,just the right size to fit on the hood of an American muscle car with hardly any clothes on.The rest is history,fucking ,fighting and wild horse riding.TS

i really wish i could find that magazine.

Yes, the essential Pamela seems to be elusive. Never was sure what kind of person she was.

I wonder, did she attend UCLA as well?

She didn't.

I forget which college she went to (maybe rae knows) I think it was a community college.

She took art classes at Los Angeles City College.

Violentbud, Read any book,any book on Jim Morrison or the Doors and The Doors and you will find out exactly who Pam Courson was.The magazine with her on the cover turned Morrison onto her hot little body,she'd been around and around and when he died she didn't lead a Sicilian widow life,are you pretending,or are we at Pam Courson 101? Because this is drivel.

Um, what, exactly is drivel? The fact that she went to that school?

For your information, i've read plenty Doors supplement.. Mikaela has asked about Pamela and i am giving what information i have. No one's pretending anything here, i think that you're making unfounded presumptions here.

I also never said anything alluding to Pamela Courson living a "Sicillian Widow Life". I stated that she'd dated men after his death, including one Randy Ralston, and by his own account, Phil Barnett, though i don't know how true that is.

I don't know why I've done to offend you, but i am amused to say the least, bud.

thats what i thought

principal not PE teacher

I've asked this before and can't recall if I ever received a reply, so I'd like to ask again. What is the basis for the fascination people seem to have with Pamela Courson? I'm not directing the question at anyone in particular, just kind of generically. I can't quite figure out what is was about her that makes people so passionate about discussing every little detail about her. I've seen her sanitized by some, trashed by others, and yet I've always just seen her as someone who didn't do anything real remarkable in her life... and died too young.. like so many others. So I guess I'm curious as to why she is so interesting and so fascinating to so many? Any replies would be appreciated. Thanks.

I can't speak for anyone else, but i personally have just always had a fascination with "tragic" females in general. Selena, Anne Frank, Sharon Tate, Edie Sedgwick, Pam Courson.. i don't know why, really, but that's part of my Pam intrigue.

Also, because there was never supposed to be a focus on her anyway, what with her merely being a rockstar's girl friend, there's not much concrete information on who she was day to day, and that makes her a bit of a mystery. Jim was such an intelligent, talented, and brilliant guy, and the fact that he continuously went back to Pam makes people curious as to what was so great about her, so to speak. Out of all the women Jim slept with, Pamela was someone he was connected with until his premature death, and so its easy to wonder what he saw in this girl that made her his "cosmic mate". The two of them are seen as a sort of fucked up reimagining of Romeo and Juliet.

As i said earlier, people either loathed her or loved her, and so when you read about Pam, you never know what's true and what's not, what's exaggerated and what's tamed down.. you have to dig a while before you feel like you have a solid conclusion of who Jim and Pam were.

It also helps that Pamela was an attractive girl.. she looked different from picture to picture, and with there so few pictures of her out there (well, compared to Jim's probably thousands, anyway), i look forward to finding new ones and maybe seeing a glimpse of her life with Jim.

Hope this helped some.

Hi Violentblossom,I meant no offense by the spelling of your screen name ,it was truly an error. Drivel was used because there is plenty of information on P.C. and who she was,and some women on this forum knew her.Drivel because it's hard to find substance in a life that had so little substance in it.Cheer's

I'm sorry, too, for taking offense. The LL has made me jumpy when it comes to Doors related forums.

Thank you for clarifyling to me, and again, my deepest apologies for the misunderstanding.

You said it well, Blossom. I myself am not as much fascinated as curious as to what made this woman tick and what made an unusual guy like Jim fall for her. Also, you wonder what she could have made of her life if she had lived. Jim, too, of course.

i just find her elusive...like i can't get a real grasp on who she was...she's a mystery to me.
and like violentblossom, i also find that i am deeply fascinated with tragic females....particularly because they seem honest about the messes they're involved in....i'm not sure...there's a lot more to it than that....but either way i guess that is why.
and also jim was such an intelligent fellow...i find that i can't help but be curious about the woman he always returned to.

like i said, she was often "portrayed" as a junky. not that she was.
hence my questions here.

i'd like to see the images of her modeling on the hood of a car.
sounds fun, do you have any links?

That's what sucks.. weve all heard about the magazine, but no one knows what happened to it, or even the magazine's name.

This begs a question or statement. I did not know she was a model, I thought she dropped out of college, as she told Jim, its in the famous NOHGOA biography by one man that knew her personally and one that probably interviewed her briefly. Not much is known about her life, did Jim meet her at the whiskey ago go? I don't think he saw her in a magazine but once again this is myth talking. In Olver Stone's movie she is potrayed as a sweet, uncompromising girl who shares Morrison's flings with fame,tirades and everything else. Meg ryan herself said "it was hell researching her" because of the differing accounts, she is not portayed as independant but we are led to believe she was by many accounts by owning a clothing store and trying to help jim, but jim could not give her a normal life which she wanted, Its known that jim introduced her to drugs, but heroin was her drug of course, its also known she had affairs such as the Count when Morrison was seeing other women too.

I felt that the movie really potrayed their relationship worse than it was in real life, there was too much cruelty, there are some lovely scenes of them for the first part of the movie and then things get ugly, was that reality? I don't know if Meg Ryan liked the movie but it was maybe a chance to work with val kilmer again, I think that Meg portayed her well, similar voice and looks and is the only real scene of what Pamella courson was like so we have to go by the many accounts. Morrison had a private life and did not mention Pam very much in interviews although she did appear in one of the last interviews Morrison ever did just before Paris.

I felt angels dance, angels die was interesing but give little new information and was just another morrison bio but yeah, any clipings would be interesting.

Pam didn't seem to have much going for her, to be honest. She was a rather normal person to begin with, a girl from the OC who came up to Hollywood on the weekends when she was a teenager, to hang out at the Strip clubs. The difference was that she snagged Morrison and hung on like grim death, while trying to figure out who she was and what she wanted to do with her life. At that time, she and Jim were like desperadoes, and well-matched. However, the difference between the women that vb mentioned and Pam is that Pam really didn't have her own identity and as far as we know, showed no talents or notable difference from regular women, except for great taste in clothes. She didn't sing, act, write, etc., and appears to have met her end because of her fascination with heroin. Instead of putting her in the category of Ann Frank, I would be more inclined to put Pam in the same group as Nancy Spungeon - although obviously with more class - another woman who fell prey to her love for a nihilistic rock star. Her immortality comes mostly from her relationship with Jim, to be honest. Without him, she simply sank below the Hollywood waterline and vanished. I don't think she had the will to go on without him and that sets her in a different category than Selena, for example, who was a Tejana superstar, murdered by a petty, jealous 'friend.' Pam seemed to lack the necessary 'killer instinct' to go on on her own, once Jim was gone. Pity, really, she seemed like a nice person to me, but then I hardly knew her. Just the one meeting and the dress.

I only roped Pamela Courson into the catagory that i did because, like the other young women i mentioned, Pamela Courson died young and under sad circumstances, and whilst i forgot to mention her, yes, Nancy Spungen also fits, though i don't care much for Sid Vicious or punk music. Nancy is also reminiscent of Courtney Love to me, who i postively loathe.

In a way, i identify with Pamela, as i have lived a life somewhat similar to her's with Jim, the main difference, though, being that i was thankfully pulled out of that lifestyle and i have now gotten past it.. something that she, unfortunately, was unable to do. Of course, i've never been involved with a rockstar, but so many of other mirrored factors were present.

You're right about Pam's identity and personality being very symbiotic with Jim's... as some have said in regards to the couple in general, you sometimes couldn't tell where one ended and the other began, and unfortunately, it continues that way today. Thanks to the bullshit exaggerations unleashed by the likes of PK and Butler, it can be a headache trying to decipher the truth from the fabrications, which certainly cannot help Pamela's memory.

I don't think that Jim and Pamela would have lasted together if they'd survived, to be honest. Part of me would like to think that that they would have, but it seems unlikely with their issues. I think they would have begun to out grow one another, though we'll never know.

Its a sad thought, but they were terribly explosive together.

Mews, in your opinion, was Pam prettier in life than in pictures?

@ Mutednostrilagony: I don't think she officially modeled or anything, i think the magazine was probably just something she lucked into.

I think it's obvious she invested too much of herself in Jim, she manages to take herself out at the same age as Jim. The psyche can implant or hardwire us for certain events, almost predestination, Elvis died at the same of his beloved mother, no way is that a coincidence it was all planned subconsciously and some point gets away from the person. It's just too bad we can't see these behaviors in ourselves until it's too late.

Good question. I've always wondered what the fascination was myself. I'm enjoying reading the replies.

John Densmore met Pamela before Jim so he may be able to answer the question of what was she like at that time. He could also confirm if she did or didn't model for a hot rod magazine.

A while back I posted an article from Esquire Magazine of which it's primary focus was Jim Morrison but there are mentions of Pamela from people who knew her at the time.

Roll Over Elvis The Second Coming Of Jim Morrison
Esquire Magazine
March 1991

http://forum.johndensmore.com/index.php?showtopic=2340


Pamela Morrison: A Final Curtain On Her Affair With Life
By: Judith Simms
Rolling Stone Magazine
June 6 1974

http://forum.johndensmore.com/index.php?showtopic=3281

In Rememberance Of Pamela Courson, Circa 2001

http://forum.johndensmore.com/index.php?showtopic=3257

King Magazine (Italy) 1991
JIM AND I FRIENDS UNTIL DEATH
by: Alain Ronay
Translated By: Joel Brody



http://forum.johndensmore.com/index.php?showtopic=2609

Someone mentioned the Declarations Filed on Pamela's behalf after Jim died. These are the declarations filed shortly after Jim's death for widow's support.







These are part of the documents filed when Pamela died in 1974.

She got the date of his death wrong in the Declaration.

I wonder how she supported herself when she came to L.A. One magazine cover does not a modeling career make.

Parents? Her father made pretty okay money as a school principal and she could have had an allowance. She was at LACC, so she also might have been a waitress or some other equally dreary student-type job.

theres something just plain wrong about a grown ass person who receives an allowance.

personal opinion no offense

As i mentioned briefly earlier, Pamela Courson worked for Ola Hudson before Jim came along, and whether that also entails her having a regular job under Ola, i'm unsure, but it does include her babysitting little Saul Hudson who grew up to become Slash from Gun's N Roses.

That's not the first time that i've heard anything about Pam babysitting, so maybe that was something she did here and there to provide her with some pocket change, at the very least.

Pam was special because she put a heart on the ass of her jeans,that meant only her true love Jim Morrison could enter her that way.It's sort of special.Didn't Jimi Hendrix babysit Slash? serious,i never heard about Jim's girl but Jimi Hendrix,it all sounds like rock n roll bullshit to me Saul Hudson has some good PR people and his dad was a record executive so maybe it's all true,but come on Pam's claim to fame is babysitting a now famous guitar player who still needs a baby sitter and really never brought anything new to the guitar game,Krieger poops on him.POOP'S. Pam was a young hot chick that scored,but even after closing the deal her investment went south,back home.The West is the best,get here and we'll do the rest.

Let me finish this diatribe of bullshit for my self and you'll can go on.When a man walks in a room with a hot woman on his arm automatically all other hot chicks in the room want to meet him,cat fight syndrome,Morrison was not a one woman man and wasn't going to be,at least until he got sober,Pam was a reaction he could get for his womanizing,a replication of his mommy to scold him,after shutting everyone out which is what an alcoholic does is isolate,he has his girl who is really a lure like the kind used to catch fish,a shiny spinning object of desire.Jim Morrison lived in the Jim Morrison world and that involved him and the world created by media of all kinds,his gift was to the masses,Pam was not a soul mate,that is a fabrication of Mazareks and I call bullshit on that NOW.Jim it turns out was a faithful fellow and took care of those that cared for him,so Pam got the prize,but it didn't make her a winner.The only winners were the families of the dead,Courson/Morrison,somewhere between lies the god honest truth.

Maybe her parents wanted her to be able to at least eat and keep a roof over her head, but I doubt she got anything she could have much fun on. She was in college and they probably wanted her to stay there, rather than quit because she couldn't afford to stay on. I suppose she also could have just gone home for the weekend. Not as if she lived that far away from L.A. either. I think Jim also got money from home, as he certainly didn't hold a job of any significance while he was studying. Someone was paying his rent, presumably.

getting money from home to pay the bills is one thing, thats helpful.

allowance to me means something else.

Oh - yes, like pocket money for kids in the UK. Sorry. Semantics!

Lol.

I think Slash is incredibly talented, myself, but that's neither here nor there.

I think Ron Wood smokes Eric Clapton but we all have our tastes.I will say Pam Courson did her best with a tough gig and was by all historical comments a fine human being and a woman that knew how to dress her man,she did a really good job,Morrison was a clothes horse.

Something for you conspiracy theorists to pick up on. Jim was dead in JUNE!

Yeah, there's a lot of stories about Jim burning the checks from his parents, I bet he didn't burn all of them.

Jim,He may have burned and thrown darts at his Playboy magazines but I don't think his parents checks, he knew where to spend that cash,and he did pay them back so I guess it alright.Looking forward to your tuesday show.
Good Luck
Tim S

what i meant was to me, i wouldn't call help paying your bills/school tuition allowance, id just call it help. to me when i hear allowance it brings to mind kids from wealthy families who dont work and dont want to and receive exorbitant amounts of $$$ which not only covers their living and school situation but also gets spent on drugs and liquor and other frivolous things. i know a few people like that and they're fun but they have no work ethic and i can tell and some even happily admit they'll be suckling off their parents bank account forever.

i obv. misunderstood what you meant by allowance.

I wouldn't think of Jim as a clothes horse. Seems he wore the same thing all the time and didn't care.

Ray and John, now there were two clothes horses.

I think Slash is incredibly talented too. I saw Guns & Roses and the former Hollywood Rose on the Sunset Strip before they became famous. It was always a packed house when they played and we kinda knew it was just a matter of time before someone signed them. Axl used to work at Tower Records in West Hollywood.

I had never heard the story about about Pamela babysitting Slash when he was a child. I always thought he grew up in England where he was born. Today I got curious and looked up his bio to see if my limited knowledge was correct and here's what I found:

Saul Hudson, mainly known as Slash, was born on July 23, 1965, Hampstead, London, England, UK and was raised in Stoke-on-Trent. Both his parents worked in the entertainment business, his mother being a clothing designer (she did some of David Bowie's costumes) and his father being an art director for a record company. When Slash was 11 he moved with his mother to Los Angeles, leaving his father behind in England, although he eventually joined them in L.A. years later.

Additonal information can be found here:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0805298/bio


Considering Slash was born in the UK in 1965 and didn't come to the States until he was 11, which would have been 1976, it doesn't seem possible that Pamela could have been his babysitter.

Thank you for pointing this out. I've had these documents for about 15 years and I have never noticed the incorrect date.

It comes from proof-reading legal documents for years. It is interesting that she signed this under penalty of perjury, presumably her lawyer dictated it, it was likely read to her and she also read it, and yet nobody caught it. Or - just to entertain Jim Cherry - perhaps Jim was dead in June after all!