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#1 WildChild28

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 01:50 AM

Hi everybody!!!

I am new on this forum and i think its one of the best Doors forum on the internet!
I have a question what is this lawsuit about that Ray and Robbie filled in?? About what was it??
And what was the paper Jim had to sign before he went to Paris? Was it cause the other Doors wanted a new singer for the band?

Thanks for the answers!!!

#2 mutenostrilagony

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 05:15 AM

QUOTE (WildChild28 @ Sep 30 2010, 07:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi everybody!!!

I am new on this forum and i think its one of the best Doors forum on the internet!
I have a question what is this lawsuit about that Ray and Robbie filled in?? About what was it??
And what was the paper Jim had to sign before he went to Paris? Was it cause the other Doors wanted a new singer for the band?

Thanks for the answers!!!

this latest lawsuit and you can read about it all over this forum was when john filed a suit against ray and robby for using the doors name without himself and it was about keeping the integrity of the band because john could not play with them at the time because of some hearing problems.  They hired a lead singer and than called themselves the doors which john objected too so they changed the name to the doors of the 21st century and later riders on the storm...the debate still continues and john has a book coming out called the doors unhinged which talks about the trial.  I just went and told the jist of it...so I hope it is correct.

About the 1971 contract I have not read too much about it but other forum members know more about that but when jim went to Paris the others continued to rehearse until he came back, they were not looking for a new singer at that point.


#3 Helen

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 05:28 AM

QUOTE (mutenostrilagony @ Sep 30 2010, 02:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
About the 1971 contract I have not read too much about it but other forum members know more about that but when jim went to Paris the others continued to rehearse until he came back, they were not looking for a new singer at that point.


This link has some interesting information on the 1971 Contract:
http://forum.johndensmore.com/index.php?sh...l=1971+contract

#4 mewsical

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 08:29 AM

QUOTE (mutenostrilagony @ Sep 30 2010, 06:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
this latest lawsuit and you can read about it all over this forum was when john filed a suit against ray and robby for using the doors name without himself and it was about keeping the integrity of the band because john could not play with them at the time because of some hearing problems.  They hired a lead singer and than called themselves the doors which john objected too so they changed the name to the doors of the 21st century and later riders on the storm...the debate still continues and john has a book coming out called the doors unhinged which talks about the trial.  I just went and told the jist of it...so I hope it is correct.

About the 1971 contract I have not read too much about it but other forum members know more about that but when jim went to Paris the others continued to rehearse until he came back, they were not looking for a new singer at that point.


As far as 'the others continued to rehearse,' in fact they were auditioning replacements constantly once Jim left for Paris.  Pretty well-known fact if you worked at Elektra in those days.

John was not so much objecting solely to the use of the band name, he was attempting to honor an early agreement between the four original members, that the Doors could only be the Doors if Jim Morrison was included, as well as Ray, Robby and John.  This wasn't so much about him, as the ideals the band aspired to when they were first formed.

#5 WildChild28

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 02:05 PM

QUOTE (mewsical @ Sep 30 2010, 09:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As far as 'the others continued to rehearse,' in fact they were auditioning replacements constantly once Jim left for Paris.  Pretty well-known fact if you worked at Elektra in those days.

John was not so much objecting solely to the use of the band name, he was attempting to honor an early agreement between the four original members, that the Doors could only be the Doors if Jim Morrison was included, as well as Ray, Robby and John.  This wasn't so much about him, as the ideals the band aspired to when they were first formed.







So u mean they were looking for a replacement for Jim?? But i thought Jim planned to come back from Paris??

Here in the forum somebody asked to John if he would perform with Ray and Robby again and he answered that they filled the lawsuit. So that come from Robby and Ray?

#6 mewsical

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 02:53 PM

QUOTE (WildChild28 @ Sep 30 2010, 03:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So u mean they were looking for a replacement for Jim?? But i thought Jim planned to come back from Paris??

Here in the forum somebody asked to John if he would perform with Ray and Robby again and he answered that they filled the lawsuit. So that come from Robby and Ray?


You might also want to have a look here about the history of the lawsuit.  http://forum.johndensmore.com/index.php?sh...20&start=20

Jim never said he was coming back from Paris.  He said he was going to Paris to explore other artistic options, i.e. continuing with his poetry, a book about the Miami trial, a movie project with composer Fred Myrow, etc.  Jim did tell John on the phone that if the LA Woman album continued to be a success, then "maybe" he would come back for a tour.  But that was as far as it got.  I don't think any of them felt that good about the possibility though.  

Some Elektra people thought that attempting to replace Jim was a waste of time, but it didn't stop the auditions.

#7 300

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 02:04 AM

QUOTE (mewsical @ Sep 30 2010, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As far as 'the others continued to rehearse,' in fact they were auditioning replacements constantly once Jim left for Paris.  Pretty well-known fact if you worked at Elektra in those days.

John was not so much objecting solely to the use of the band name, he was attempting to honor an early agreement between the four original members, that the Doors could only be the Doors if Jim Morrison was included, as well as Ray, Robby and John.  This wasn't so much about him, as the ideals the band aspired to when they were first formed.

Hi ,mewsical .You mean they were auditioning unknown persons or there is some one you can name? and how the whole thing began?,I mean ,who came up with the idea of “new singer”, they must be managed the whole situation very secretly .      


#8 mutenostrilagony

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 02:35 AM

QUOTE (300 @ Oct 1 2010, 08:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi ,mewsical .You mean they were auditioning unknown persons or there is some one you can name? and how the whole thing began?,I mean ,who came up with the idea of “new singer”, they must be managed the whole situation very secretly .


look there were varying views from the doors and people who were around and worked for them.  the doors themselves were rehearsing and waiting for jim to come back, everything was up in the air, some people say jim had intended to leave the group so there were differing views, they could break up or continue as the doors or the others could make an instrumental album while jim carried on with other projects who knows.. it unless otherwise specifies..the doors were not auditioning new singers  but than again I was not there so people around them know better what was happening.


#9 gotothelight

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 02:42 AM

"[Jim leaving the band] is not a rumor. That's a fact. I was in the meeting when Jim said that he was leaving the band and was going to pursue other avenues for the foreseeable future.
"We actually auditioned other singers to replace Jim as the lead singer of the Doors. I even ended up managing the guy who was gong to replace Jim. His name was Michael Stull. But after Jim died, the other three decided to go on alone."

Bill Siddons


#10 gotothelight

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 02:50 AM

QUOTE (mewsical @ Sep 30 2010, 06:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You might also want to have a look here about the history of the lawsuit.  http://forum.johndensmore.com/index.php?sh...20&start=20

Jim never said he was coming back from Paris.  He said he was going to Paris to explore other artistic options, i.e. continuing with his poetry, a book about the Miami trial, a movie project with composer Fred Myrow, etc.  Jim did tell John on the phone that if the LA Woman album continued to be a success, then "maybe" he would come back for a tour.  But that was as far as it got.  I don't think any of them felt that good about the possibility though.  

Some Elektra people thought that attempting to replace Jim was a waste of time, but it didn't stop the auditions.


I think the only one who expected Jim to come back at the time was Danny since Jim told him he was coming back. I don't think Jim lied to him. I think Jim did have the intention of coming back, but not in the capacity as lead singer for The Doors. He was done with that. Jim seemed to consider L.A. his home, so I'm sure that at some point he would've gone back.. even to visit..if not permanantly. I believe that's what he meant when he told Danny he was coming back.

#11 gotothelight

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 03:33 AM

QUOTE (mutenostrilagony @ Sep 30 2010, 09:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
this latest lawsuit and you can read about it all over this forum was when john filed a suit against ray and robby for using the doors name without himself and it was about keeping the integrity of the band because john could not play with them at the time because of some hearing problems.  They hired a lead singer and than called themselves the doors which john objected too so they changed the name to the doors of the 21st century and later riders on the storm...the debate still continues and john has a book coming out called the doors unhinged which talks about the trial.  I just went and told the jist of it...so I hope it is correct.

About the 1971 contract I have not read too much about it but other forum members know more about that but when jim went to Paris the others continued to rehearse until he came back, they were not looking for a new singer at that point.


The lawsuit was filed on behalf of John and the estates (both the Morrison's and Courson's). John's choosing to not play with Ray and Robby had not much to do with his tinnitus (ringing in the ears), although he did suffer with that affliction. He contended that The Doors were Jim, Ray, Robby, and himself.. and also said he'd play with them again when Jim did (I'm paraphrasing here). Tongue in cheek of course. And yes, Ray and Robby hired a lead singer (Ian Astbury) and called themselves "The Doors (of the 21st Century)", which John and the estates objected to. Legally they had a right to object, which is why they took it to court and why they prevailed.

#12 300

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 03:54 AM

QUOTE (gotothelight @ Oct 1 2010, 11:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"[Jim leaving the band] is not a rumor. That's a fact. I was in the meeting when Jim said that he was leaving the band and was going to pursue other avenues for the foreseeable future.
"We actually auditioned other singers to replace Jim as the lead singer of the Doors. I even ended up managing the guy who was gong to replace Jim. His name was Michael Stull. But after Jim died, the other three decided to go on alone."

Bill Siddons

This is the guy Bill Siddons is  talking about ?
Michael Stull


#13 gotothelight

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 04:06 AM

QUOTE (300 @ Oct 1 2010, 06:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is the guy Bill Siddons is  talking about ?
Michael Stull

Unless there's more than one, I would assume it's the same guy. I believe Stull was also with the Butt's band (where's Alex when I need him??) I also believe he did commercial jingles at some point.

#14 300

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 04:09 AM

QUOTE (gotothelight @ Oct 1 2010, 01:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Unless there's more than one, I would assume it's the same guy. I believe Stull was also with the Butt's band (where's Alex when I need him??) I also believe he did commercial jingles at some point.

Few info about Butt's Band
Butt's Band


#15 gotothelight

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 04:18 AM



#16 mewsical

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 06:53 AM

QUOTE (gotothelight @ Oct 1 2010, 03:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"[Jim leaving the band] is not a rumor. That's a fact. I was in the meeting when Jim said that he was leaving the band and was going to pursue other avenues for the foreseeable future.
"We actually auditioned other singers to replace Jim as the lead singer of the Doors. I even ended up managing the guy who was gong to replace Jim. His name was Michael Stull. But after Jim died, the other three decided to go on alone."

Bill Siddons


Several producers and A&R guys at Elektra were assisting in the audition process.  I don't like to name names without their permission, but they're still around.

#17 mewsical

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 06:56 AM

QUOTE (gotothelight @ Oct 1 2010, 03:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the only one who expected Jim to come back at the time was Danny since Jim told him he was coming back. I don't think Jim lied to him. I think Jim did have the intention of coming back, but not in the capacity as lead singer for The Doors. He was done with that. Jim seemed to consider L.A. his home, so I'm sure that at some point he would've gone back.. even to visit..if not permanantly. I believe that's what he meant when he told Danny he was coming back.


He wanted to be free of all the responsibilities and, for him, insanity, that was going on around the band.  A couple of years go by, the legal issues get resolved, and he's able to come and go as he pleases again.  But, yes, no interest in returning to the band.  He'd made that clear, as Siddons said.  


#18 WildChild28

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 01:00 AM

QUOTE (mewsical @ Oct 1 2010, 07:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He wanted to be free of all the responsibilities and, for him, insanity, that was going on around the band.  A couple of years go by, the legal issues get resolved, and he's able to come and go as he pleases again.  But, yes, no interest in returning to the band.  He'd made that clear, as Siddons said.






Thats really weird for me. In Ray's book it sounds like Jim only went for holidays or something like that to Paris. In this book it sounds like anybody know something and everybody just wait for Jim to come back!
And i have other question too. Ray always says he was Jim's best friend but isnt that really strange that Jim only phoned to John and not to his best friend?? Wasnt there any contact with the others when Jim went to Paris?
Do you think Jim went to Paris cause he was upset for the Miami concert? For me it seams like everything changed with this concert!

#19 mutenostrilagony

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 06:18 AM

QUOTE (gotothelight @ Oct 1 2010, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the only one who expected Jim to come back at the time was Danny since Jim told him he was coming back. I don't think Jim lied to him. I think Jim did have the intention of coming back, but not in the capacity as lead singer for The Doors. He was done with that. Jim seemed to consider L.A. his home, so I'm sure that at some point he would've gone back.. even to visit..if not permanantly. I believe that's what he meant when he told Danny he was coming back.


I remember reading in danny's book that jim told him that he may not come back from Paris and near the end of looking at danny's scrap book jim says "when will this ever end"  Danny asked him what he wanted for the future whether he wanted to tour or not, jim just indicated he was going on a sabbatical.

QUOTE
Thats really weird for me. In Ray's book it sounds like Jim only went for holidays or something like that to Paris. In this book it sounds like anybody know something and everybody just wait for Jim to come back!
And i have other question too. Ray always says he was Jim's best friend but isnt that really strange that Jim only phoned to John and not to his best friend?? Wasnt there any contact with the others when Jim went to Paris?
Do you think Jim went to Paris cause he was upset for the Miami concert? For me it seams like everything changed with this concert!


I would not read too much into this.  He said goodbye to the members but probably he only had john's number at the time and he called it although he knew the others, he probably just found john's at the time.  Ray and jim were more close at the beginning because they formed the group.  I think it was the pressure in general is why he went to paris to try and find himself.

QUOTE
"[Jim leaving the band] is not a rumor. That's a fact. I was in the meeting when Jim said that he was leaving the band and was going to pursue other avenues for the foreseeable future.
"We actually auditioned other singers to replace Jim as the lead singer of the Doors. I even ended up managing the guy who was gong to replace Jim. His name was Michael Stull. But after Jim died, the other three decided to go on alone."
Bill Siddons


I won't debate on this.  Paul rothchild even said that jim coming back to be with the doors was a myth created by "the doors themselves."

QUOTE
The lawsuit was filed on behalf of John and the estates (both the Morrison's and Courson's). John's choosing to not play with Ray and Robby had not much to do with his tinnitus (ringing in the ears), although he did suffer with that affliction. He contended that The Doors were Jim, Ray, Robby, and himself.. and also said he'd play with them again when Jim did (I'm paraphrasing here). Tongue in cheek of course. And yes, Ray and Robby hired a lead singer (Ian Astbury) and called themselves "The Doors (of the 21st Century)", which John and the estates objected to. Legally they had a right to object, which is why they took it to court and why they prevailed.


this puzzles me a little.  When the doors continued in 1971 john asked and this was in his book, "what are we going to call ourselves?

"we are the doors with or without jim", ray said
"I don't agree", robby said
"I'm on the fence" john answered,

so why when they played together as the doors after jim died and they had some other musicicans as well does john object now and jim is never going to come back, they had guest lead singers on occasions, so why now, I know its for the groups integrity but I think I raise a valid point, they could play together from time to time.  


#20 Helen

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 08:56 AM

QUOTE (mutenostrilagony @ Oct 2 2010, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
this puzzles me a little. When the doors continued in 1971 john asked and this was in his book, "what are we going to call ourselves?

"we are the doors with or without jim", ray said
"I don't agree", robby said
"I'm on the fence" john answered,

so why when they played together as the doors after jim died and they had some other musicicans as well does john object now and jim is never going to come back, they had guest lead singers on occasions, so why now, I know its for the groups integrity but I think I raise a valid point, they could play together from time to time.


Sub Section 11 Amendment to the Old Doors Partnership Agreement March 11th 1971

"On March 11th 1971 the parties executed a one page amendment to the Old Doors Partnership Agreement. It sets forth a specific provision prohibiting the use of the name, The Doors, by any partner upon termination of the partnership for any reason other than the death of a partner. The amendment was prompted by a concern that after L.A. Woman was delivered to Elektra, Morrison might leave the band and form another band in Europe using the name 'The Doors.'


Also.....does the above mean that if Ray, Robbie and John had decided to work with another singer, i.e. Michael Stull, they would have been able to keep the name The Doors if Jim had not died?




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