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P Courson's versus J Morrison's handwriting


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#1 Helen

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 01:42 AM




Look at the handwriting on the above 2 images. In my opinion, the writing that 'J Morrison' is written in on each image, looks to be penned by the same hand. However, the handwritten 'P Courson' and 'Pamela S Courson' below JM, do not look as if written by the same person. I would go so far as to say that the 'P Courson on the left image, looks remarkably like it may have been written by the same person who has written 'J Morrison' above it.

What does anyone else think? Depending on your responses, I may or may not have an  interesting observation to draw your attention to.

#2 Guest_TheWallsScreamedPoetry_*

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 02:30 AM

Seems pretty conclusive to me Helen.
Looks like Jim wrote his and Pam's name on the left.
Do you know where these are from?
Not seen these before....interesting. smile.gif

#3 Helen

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 03:04 AM

QUOTE (TheWallsScreamedPoetry @ Jul 17 2010, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Seems pretty conclusive to me Helen.
Looks like Jim wrote his and Pam's name on the left.
Do you know where these are from?
Not seen these before....interesting. smile.gif


I got them seperately as google image searches for 'jim morrisons handwriting' (or something similar), but it seems there is a web page where they appear together. This web page says that besides authentic examples of JM's signature, there are a few examples of Pamela Courson's also. I just feel that the 2 P Courson signatures look nothing alike.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http...%26tbs%3Disch:1

Not sure if I'm allowed to post links in this way. If not,let me know.

#4 Guest_TheWallsScreamedPoetry_*

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 03:21 AM

QUOTE (Helen @ Jul 17 2010, 03:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not sure if I'm allowed to post links in this way. If not,let me know.

Yeah seen some of this stuff on other sites.
BTW.....I would not worry at all about posting links and stuff here as copyright on the internet is not exactly a concept simply an aspiration that will never be realised.
I had Frank Lisciandro whining to me once that I had some of his photos on my fanzine and demanding their removal ....he got a short answer, as he was rather rude about it, the second word being 'off'.  laugh.gif
I even had a piece I wrote for the fanzine appear on another site under the name of the loser who nicked it....c'est la vie

If anything really out of order gets posted then that's Jim and Dianne's domain and they do a very good job here so let them worry about stuff like that.
Take no notice of the 'copyright police' here or anywhere else as they are just idiots trying to sound important and  looking for a bit of attention.  smile.gif

#5 gotothelight

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 03:55 AM

QUOTE (Helen @ Jul 17 2010, 05:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Look at the handwriting on the above 2 images. In my opinion, the writing that 'J Morrison' is written in on each image, looks to be penned by the same hand. However, the handwritten 'P Courson' and 'Pamela S Courson' below JM, do not look as if written by the same person. I would go so far as to say that the 'P Courson on the left image, looks remarkably like it may have been written by the same person who has written 'J Morrison' above it.

What does anyone else think? Depending on your responses, I may or may not have an  interesting observation to draw your attention to.

It absolutely looks like Jim signed both his and Pamela's names on the one on the left. Am interested in your observation.

#6 Helen

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 04:13 AM

QUOTE (TheWallsScreamedPoetry @ Jul 17 2010, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Seems pretty conclusive to me Helen.
Looks like Jim wrote his and Pam's name on the left.


QUOTE
name='GoToTheLight' It absolutely looks like Jim signed both his and Pamela's names on the one on the left. Am interested in your observation.


OK......I agree with you both smile.gif However, I watched the French DVD last night called 'The Last Days of Jim Morrison'- Derniers jours de jim morrison (July 3, 2010 Commemorative Edition). I don't speak French, so unfortunatley I could not understand it. I believe this DVD has been mentioned in the Jim Morrison's Death July 3 1971 thread.

Anyhow, (Get to the point Helen) -During the documentary they show a typed sheet in French, which looks as if it may have been the official statement made by Pamela Courson after Jim died. Then, the film moves onto a still of a piece of paper with a printed French stamp and Pamela Courson's signature. I did a double take. I have a bit of a fascination with JM's handwriting, so seeing this stuck out like a sore thumb. I can only assume what the document is. Would be good if anyone could translate. below are screenshots from the DVD, so the qualitiy is poor.



#7 Guest_TheWallsScreamedPoetry_*

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 04:26 AM

Excellent Helen....good to see you are getting the hang of this now  laugh.gif

When you put the three sigs together it can be seen that the posh curly one is indeed very similar to the other two.
Can't see any reason for the French doc with here sig other than a statement about July 3rd.
Wonder if there is any examples of her writing before she met Jim in 66. I wonder if she copied Jim's style of writing? There are plenty of Courson experts here  laugh.gif
Again ....Good One!! smile.gif

#8 gotothelight

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 04:27 AM

Um... this was an official document signed _after_ Jim died? It looks like his handwriting... not Pam's...

#9 Guest_TheWallsScreamedPoetry_*

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 04:29 AM

QUOTE (gotothelight @ Jul 17 2010, 05:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Um... this was an official document signed _after_ Jim died? It looks like his handwriting... not Pam's...

Maybe Jim disguised himself as Pam after faking his own death. laugh.gif

#10 gotothelight

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 04:50 AM

QUOTE (TheWallsScreamedPoetry @ Jul 17 2010, 07:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe Jim disguised himself as Pam after faking his own death. laugh.gif

Yeah.. maybe he had a Pam wig.. and had someone kick him in the nuts to raise his voice a few octaves... hey.. it could happen! laugh.gif

Seriously though.. it sure does look like Pam somehow copied Jim's style of handwriting at some point. I assume the signature in the right photo that Helen posted would be Pam's 'actual' signature.
Kinda weird though.

#11 mewsical

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 06:34 AM

That 'n' on the French documents is very distinctively Morrisonian!  Also, women generally sign their full names, not initials.  She certainly seemed to in the first exemplar.

Btw, on the subject of the internet and copyright infringement - you might want to check this out.  People I know are actually being sued by Righthaven, aka The Las Vegas Review Journal.  http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jul/0...right-lawsuits/

This is an appalling precedent to set, and I hope the justices of the 9th Circuit, who will be hearing some of the cases, will once and for all determine what constitutes 'fair use.'  Until then, I'd be cautious.



#12 Guest_TheWallsScreamedPoetry_*

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 06:48 AM

Luckily most of us don't live in a nuthole like the US of A laugh.gif

#13 Helen

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 06:52 AM

QUOTE (mewsical @ Jul 17 2010, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That 'n' on the French documents is very distinctively Morrisonian! Also, women generally sign their full names, not initials. She certainly seemed to in the first exemplar.

Btw, on the subject of the internet and copyright infringement - you might want to check this out. People I know are actually being sued by Righthaven, aka The Las Vegas Review Journal. http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jul/0...right-lawsuits/

This is an appalling precedent to set, and I hope the justices of the 9th Circuit, who will be hearing some of the cases, will once and for all determine what constitutes 'fair use.' Until then, I'd be cautious.


To my mind, posting a link to a website is similar to pointing out a book on a library shelf smile.gif

#14 Helen

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 06:59 AM

QUOTE (TheWallsScreamedPoetry @ Jul 17 2010, 01:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe Jim disguised himself as Pam after faking his own death. laugh.gif



LMSO - In Manchester UK , we 'laff' our socks off!! laugh.gif  laugh.gif  tongue.gif

#15 mewsical

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 07:23 AM

QUOTE (Helen @ Jul 17 2010, 07:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To my mind, posting a link to a website is similar to pointing out a book on a library shelf smile.gif


You can post all the links you want.  What Righthaven didn't like - and it is infringement, per se - is to copy and paste the entire article, or whatever it is.  In their case, it was reviews of acts appearing in Vegas.  The thinking is that this prevents readers from actually going to the site itself, and also uses copyrighted material in another setting.   They've filed 65 or so lawsuits, asking $75K for EACH INFRINGEMENT.  It's a very sneaky way of making money - so far they've settled with one offender for about $2K, that I'm aware of, and further punished the owner of an AC/DC website, I think for more.  

To use your library book analogy - you would be actually taking the book without the permission of the library/author, and putting it in your personal collection.  

The general practice in cases like this is to notify the 'offender' via a 'cease and desist' letter, asking them to please remove the material.  What Righthaven seems to have done is to skip the cease and desist step and go straight for the jugular.

#16 Guest_TheWallsScreamedPoetry_*

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 07:32 AM

I am an Englishman so if Righthaven or any other American sent me a 'cease and desist' letter I would simply send them a cyber shove it up your arce letter in return laugh.gif .

This argument is pointless and my solution is close the internet immediately smile.gif

America does not tell me what to do....I have plenty of idiots here that do that job.

#17 mewsical

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 07:39 AM

QUOTE (TheWallsScreamedPoetry @ Jul 17 2010, 08:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am an Englishman so if Righthaven or any other American sent me a 'cease and desist' letter I would simply send them a cyber shove it up your arce letter in return laugh.gif .

This argument is pointless and my solution is close the internet immediately smile.gif

America does not tell me what to do....I have plenty of idiots here that do that job.


If you use American content, you expose yourself to prosecution in American courts and then they'll take your default, unless you show up to fight it, at considerable cost of course.

In fact, this is exactly what the lawyers involved in this situation are fearful of, that it will effectively halt the internet.  

It's not America telling you what to do, it's a copyright holder, regardless of nationality.  Fortunately, Britain is at least lenient when it comes to the use of copyrighted images, but the internet is world-wide and in this present climate, it pays to at least be aware.

#18 darkstar

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 07:46 AM

Interesting discussion to bring up and most noteworthy to take into consideration.  

I have PM'd Diane and asked her what she thinks on this subject considering the obvious.  I have put in a request suggesting the removal of all the articles entirely from this forum.  Of course the links to the articles will be left, of which most of these articles are so old they no longer exist.

There are certainly other Doors sites that offer articles from their databases that should take the situation into consideration as well.  

It really sucks but thats the way it has got to be.

#19 mewsical

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 08:25 AM

QUOTE (darkstar @ Jul 17 2010, 08:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Interesting discussion to bring up and most noteworthy to take into consideration.  

I have PM'd Diane and asked her what she thinks on this subject considering the obvious.  I have put in a request suggesting the removal of all the articles entirely from this forum.  Of course the links to the articles will be left, of which most of these articles are so old they no longer exist.

There are certainly other Doors sites that offer articles from their databases that should take the situation into consideration as well.  

It really sucks but thats the way it has got to be.


I wouldn't do anything drastic at this point.  Most if not all copyright holders - with the exception of these scavengers in Vegas - will simply contact you and ask you to remove the content, if they object at all.  Then, if you refuse to cooperate with that request, they can initiate legal action.  Righthaven are behaving in an appalling fashion.

#20 Next Little Girl

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 08:51 AM

QUOTE (Helen @ Jul 17 2010, 05:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
OK......I agree with you both smile.gif However, I watched the French DVD last night called 'The Last Days of Jim Morrison'- Derniers jours de jim morrison (July 3, 2010 Commemorative Edition). I don't speak French, so unfortunatley I could not understand it. I believe this DVD has been mentioned in the Jim Morrison's Death July 3 1971 thread.

Anyhow, (Get to the point Helen) -During the documentary they show a typed sheet in French, which looks as if it may have been the official statement made by Pamela Courson after Jim died. Then, the film moves onto a still of a piece of paper with a printed French stamp and Pamela Courson's signature. I did a double take. I have a bit of a fascination with JM's handwriting, so seeing this stuck out like a sore thumb. I can only assume what the document is. Would be good if anyone could translate. below are screenshots from the DVD, so the qualitiy is poor.




Thanks for this Helen, I am intrigued,

I've finished a rough translation. While I do not speak French, I have made use of an available online translator and I have done my best. I do apologise if it is not word for word. It appears to be Pam's statement to the French Police:


take a hot bath, he headed to the bathroom, he filled his bath. While I was in the kitchen my friend called me saying he was sick and feeling sick. I went in the kitchen to retrieve an orange container type pot. My friend threw up in the container. I saw food I think. It seems to me that there was blood mixed with it. I emptied the container, and again my friend threw up in this container only blood, then a third time with more blood clots. Every time I emptied the contents into the sink of the bathroom, I rinsed the container. Then my friend said he felt "weird", but he's says I am not sick, do not call a doctor I feel better, it's over, and my friend said "go to bed ", and that he would join me in bed in a while. At this time is seemed my friend was better because his vomit flows were down a bit. I went back to bed and fell asleep as I was immediately reassured.

I do not know how long I slept. I awoke with a start since my friend was not lying near me. I ran to the bathroom and saw that my friend was still in the tub. His head was not in the water, he seemed to sleep with his head on the edge of the bath, some blood....




If this is Pam's statement to the French police, then the mystery is, how did Jim Morrison forge Pam's name, if we are correct in assuming that this is Jim's forged version of Pam's signiture. blink.gif However, we need to see the entire document in order to see if the forged signiture is indeed on it.


~Sheri




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