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#1 gotothelight

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 05:19 AM

Has anyone read this book by Doug Cameron.. (who I guess, as a teenager, used to help Vince Treanor with the Doors sound stuff)? I just finished reading it (actually I got it yesterday and read the whole thing last night) and came away with the "something's wrong, something's not quite right" feeling. I found it very difficult to believe some of the 'stories' he was telling, and he seemed to know what was said in several private conversations that he was not a part of.. which struck me as odd. He completely trashed Bill Siddons in the book as well, which was a bit transparent for me since he worked with Vince and Vince has made it very clear how _he_ felt about Siddons. I actually started wondering if those were this guy Doug's feelings.. or if he was simply echoing what Mr Treanor has said.
And speaking of Mr Treanor, he didn't come off very well in the book either, although he's never come off well even when he speaks for himself (in my opinion). There is a chapter in the book that the author says is Vince's own words.. and when I read it.. I knew immediately that it _is_ Vince's own words. He comes off as negative, hateful, and very self-serving (and apologies to anyone who knows him)... but then he always does. I already knew to take whatever Vince says with a grain of salt since some of his 'facts' are not what he insists they are, and there were moments when I almost shut the book and said "enough" as I was reading what amounted to nothing more than a trash-fest in parts.
Anyhow.. has anyone else read this? I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on it. I sense it's embellished at best, and very little in the way of factual as well. The word "sensationalism" comes to mind.. big time.

#2 jym

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 05:57 AM

QUOTE (gotothelight @ Dec 1 2009, 07:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Has anyone read this book by Doug Cameron.. (who I guess, as a teenager, used to help Vince Treanor with the Doors sound stuff)? I just finished reading it (actually I got it yesterday and read the whole thing last night) and came away with the "something's wrong, something's not quite right" feeling. I found it very difficult to believe some of the 'stories' he was telling, and he seemed to know what was said in several private conversations that he was not a part of.. which struck me as odd. He completely trashed Bill Siddons in the book as well, which was a bit transparent for me since he worked with Vince and Vince has made it very clear how _he_ felt about Siddons. I actually started wondering if those were this guy Doug's feelings.. or if he was simply echoing what Mr Treanor has said.
And speaking of Mr Treanor, he didn't come off very well in the book either, although he's never come off well even when he speaks for himself (in my opinion). There is a chapter in the book that the author says is Vince's own words.. and when I read it.. I knew immediately that it _is_ Vince's own words. He comes off as negative, hateful, and very self-serving (and apologies to anyone who knows him)... but then he always does. I already knew to take whatever Vince says with a grain of salt since some of his 'facts' are not what he insists they are, and there were moments when I almost shut the book and said "enough" as I was reading what amounted to nothing more than a trash-fest in parts.
Anyhow.. has anyone else read this? I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on it. I sense it's embellished at best, and very little in the way of factual as well. The word "sensationalism" comes to mind.. big time.


Wow! you read the whole thing in a night! I'm impressed I've been reading like crazy & haven't downed one in a single reading. I don't know about Doug Cameron but I had some dealings with Vince and his manuscript that he was looking to get published. I offered to edit it and reading the manuscript it was apparent Vince still carried a very large chip on his shoulder about Bill Siddons and Morrison. So much, in fact he refused to call me Jim. I kept getting e-mails to Jerry. I rather doubt you will see a book by Vince because of his attitude.

#3 gotothelight

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 06:02 AM

QUOTE (jym @ Dec 1 2009, 08:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wow! you read the whole thing in a night! I'm impressed I've been reading like crazy & haven't downed one in a single reading. I don't know about Doug Cameron but I had some dealings with Vince and his manuscript that he was looking to get published. I offered to edit it and reading the manuscript it was apparent Vince still carried a very large chip on his shoulder about Bill Siddons and Morrison. So much, in fact he refused to call me Jim. I kept getting e-mails to Jerry. I rather doubt you will see a book by Vince because of his attitude.


I agree. Vince certainly does carry a HUGE chip on his shoulder.. and not for nothing.. but I'm not sure I'd read a book by him even if he did publish one. He comes off as a real bitter man who..well.. I'm not going to use the "L" word... but let's just say.. who twists the truth for a very obvious agenda at times.

And yes.. lol.. I read the book in a night. I read fast - very fast - which works to my disadvantage if I really love a book.. since I don't have the capacity to make it last. I'm always pissed at myself when I finish a book and have nothing left to look forward to with it.

#4 mutenostrilagony

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 06:05 AM

what is this book about, exactly, doors jim related?  No doors biography has been disregarding of vince and bill, although ray manzaek did criticise Bill Siddons in his book.  John has had good regard for both of them and you can tell from his book.  They did a great deal for the doors in terms of management and sound, vince even wanted to become their manager and may have pushed his way but was loyal to them during their career.  Is this book available, if when, it would be an interesting read.

#5 jym

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 10:48 AM

It's got a cool cover.

#6 gotothelight

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 04:12 PM

QUOTE (mutenostrilagony @ Dec 1 2009, 09:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
what is this book about, exactly, doors jim related?  No doors biography has been disregarding of vince and bill, although ray manzaek did criticise Bill Siddons in his book.  John has had good regard for both of them and you can tell from his book.  They did a great deal for the doors in terms of management and sound, vince even wanted to become their manager and may have pushed his way but was loyal to them during their career.  Is this book available, if when, it would be an interesting read.


Yes, it is Doors/Jim related. Written by Doug Cameron, who worked alongside Vince Treanor. There is more than just criticism.. there is complete trashing. The book is available on Amazon.

#7 mewsical

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 08:34 AM

There's a board out there somewhere to which Mr. Treanor occasionally contributes, and his buddies on the board are very defensive of any criticism.  I got royally savaged by one of them, if I recall rightly.  I am of the impression that Vince was furious that Siddons got the management gig, and still remains that way.  Frankly, if he can't even stand the sound of the name "Jim" he should cease and desist from exploiting his association with the Doors.  Period.  

I know what you mean by fast reading, D.  I'm fast as well, but I do try to put the book down, just to have something to last until the next day, but if the book is absorbing, either in a negative or positive way, it's hard to do that, I know!

Btw, I found Tony Funches over on Facebook.  He has a few photos up, but only of him during his days working with the Stones in 1969.  He merely says he worked with the Doors, and leaves it at that.  He sounds cheerful and positive.

#8 jym

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 01:53 PM

QUOTE (mewsical @ Dec 2 2009, 10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There's a board out there somewhere to which Mr. Treanor occasionally contributes, and his buddies on the board are very defensive of any criticism.  I got royally savaged by one of them, if I recall rightly.  I am of the impression that Vince was furious that Siddons got the management gig, and still remains that way.  Frankly, if he can't even stand the sound of the name "Jim" he should cease and desist from exploiting his association with the Doors.  Period.

It was the Freedomman's board. Last time I checked they hadn't heard from Vince in a while, he had been working on a organ in Korea. I think he finished the job and was expected to return to the U.S. but don't know if he has or did. He was indeed still mad that Siddons got the job as manager, and he was of the opinion that if The Doors had hired him as manager he would have straightened Jim out of his bad habits and even fire him.

#9 gotothelight

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 04:52 AM

QUOTE (jym @ Dec 2 2009, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It was the Freedomman's board. Last time I checked they hadn't heard from Vince in a while, he had been working on a organ in Korea. I think he finished the job and was expected to return to the U.S. but don't know if he has or did. He was indeed still mad that Siddons got the job as manager, and he was of the opinion that if The Doors had hired him as manager he would have straightened Jim out of his bad habits and even fire him.


I think it's more than a little weird to hold a 40-year grudge over who got to be manager and who didn't, don't you? Sounds like Mr Treanor may have some anger issues... as well as some real delusions of self-importance.

#10 mewsical

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 10:33 AM

QUOTE (jym @ Dec 2 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It was the Freedomman's board. Last time I checked they hadn't heard from Vince in a while, he had been working on a organ in Korea. I think he finished the job and was expected to return to the U.S. but don't know if he has or did. He was indeed still mad that Siddons got the job as manager, and he was of the opinion that if The Doors had hired him as manager he would have straightened Jim out of his bad habits and even fire him.


Yeah, right Vince.  Good luck with that.  Far as I'm concerned, this sort of attitude leads me to believe that the Doors made the right decision by choosing Bill Siddons, who hitchhiked all the way to NYC, btw, just to meet up with them on one occasion, pre-travel budgets.  Those are the folks who show the right dedication, not people who foolishly think they would have "straightened Jim out" or "fire him."  Paul Rothchild, who contributed a great deal more to the Doors than Vince, couldn't "straighten Jim out," and neither could anybody else.  Only Jim could do that.  And he didn't particularly want to at that time.

#11 mewsical

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 10:37 AM

QUOTE (gotothelight @ Dec 3 2009, 04:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think it's more than a little weird to hold a 40-year grudge over who got to be manager and who didn't, don't you? Sounds like Mr Treanor may have some anger issues... as well as some real delusions of self-importance.


If some of his cohorts at the Freedom Man board are any indicator, I'd say that was about right.  The only people who really have the right to hold a grudge against Jim or any of it are the three remaining Doors.  They were the ones most affected by Jim's conduct, but when Jim attempted to quit in 1968, Ray had to be pretty persuasive to keep him in the band.  Jim would probably have knocked Treanor on his butt, figuratively or literally, if he'd caught wind of this sort of talk, valuable though he may have been as an equipment/road manager.

#12 knowidea

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 04:39 PM

The correspondence I have had w/ Vince has always been cordial (even helped me w/ a technical issue concerning speakers)......and he never had a problem referring to me as Jim (I can't imagine any correlation concerning the commonality of the name).  His comments to pass on to John have always been positive.  Everyone gets perceived different ways.

#13 gotothelight

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 04:34 AM

QUOTE (knowidea @ Dec 3 2009, 07:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The correspondence I have had w/ Vince has always been cordial (even helped me w/ a technical issue concerning speakers)......and he never had a problem referring to me as Jim (I can't imagine any correlation concerning the commonality of the name).  His comments to pass on to John have always been positive.  Everyone gets perceived different ways.


Good for you Jim. Maybe you caught him on a few good days. Or maybe you didn't use any of the trigger words... Jim, Pam, Siddons, or Sugerman.

#14 Moses Jones

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 01:37 PM

QUOTE (jym @ Dec 1 2009, 01:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's got a cool cover.


Dear Jerry,

Remember the old adage about judging a book by it's cover? Some of my very favorite books have very plain unassuming covers... .




QUOTE (mewsical @ Dec 3 2009, 01:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If some of his cohorts at the Freedom Man board are any indicator, I'd say that was about right.  The only people who really have the right to hold a grudge against Jim or any of it are the three remaining Doors.  They were the ones most affected by Jim's conduct, but when Jim attempted to quit in 1968, Ray had to be pretty persuasive to keep him in the band.  Jim would probably have knocked Treanor on his butt, figuratively or literally, if he'd caught wind of this sort of talk, valuable though he may have been as an equipment/road manager.


It's my opinion no one has a right to have a grudge against Jim for his behavior. Jim was Jim, he was a man like any other, full of duality,kindness,meanness,drunkenness and sobriety. It was his " behavior" good and bad that made The Doors what they were. I AM of the opinion that unless someone's behavior puts me in physical danger,they are free to pursue whatever course they decide on. While I surely would not have wanted to be a passenger in Jim's car after a night on the town,yet I could not or would not deny him the right to choose which avenues he decided to roam. Live and let live I say. Example: would the Doors be The Doors had Pat Boone fronted the band and wrote the lyrics?


Sadly the genius of youth is often wasted on the youth. I have had friends die from all sorts of misadventure. Am I sad about losing them? Yes of course, as well as angry at myself for not being able to do more to save them. But I bare no grudge at them for throwing thier lives away,I remain feeling blessed to having known them and have hopefully learned from them and their mistakes.

The thought of someone having a grudge to bare against Morrison smacks to me of both jealousy and greed, that what Jim had to give them in terms of his art and his time on the planet simply wasn't enough,somehow they always wanted more than what he had to give. By 1968 the baloon was full. The following year in Miami it stretched at the seams and burst. The music and the performances that followed were just the final breathes of air escaping.

En Vino Veritas(?) "I'M lonely... .".

#15 mewsical

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 06:47 PM

QUOTE (Moses Jones @ Dec 4 2009, 01:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dear Jerry,

Remember the old adage about judging a book by it's cover? Some of my very favorite books have very plain unassuming covers... .






It's my opinion no one has a right to have a grudge against Jim for his behavior. Jim was Jim, he was a man like any other, full of duality,kindness,meanness,drunkenness and sobriety. It was his " behavior" good and bad that made The Doors what they were. I AM of the opinion that unless someone's behavior puts me in physical danger,they are free to pursue whatever course they decide on. While I surely would not have wanted to be a passenger in Jim's car after a night on the town,yet I could not or would not deny him the right to choose which avenues he decided to roam. Live and let live I say. Example: would the Doors be The Doors had Pat Boone fronted the band and wrote the lyrics?


Sadly the genius of youth is often wasted on the youth. I have had friends die from all sorts of misadventure. Am I sad about losing them? Yes of course, as well as angry at myself for not being able to do more to save them. But I bare no grudge at them for throwing thier lives away,I remain feeling blessed to having known them and have hopefully learned from them and their mistakes.

The thought of someone having a grudge to bare against Morrison smacks to me of both jealousy and greed, that what Jim had to give them in terms of his art and his time on the planet simply wasn't enough,somehow they always wanted more than what he had to give. By 1968 the baloon was full. The following year in Miami it stretched at the seams and burst. The music and the performances that followed were just the final breathes of air escaping.

En Vino Veritas(?) "I'M lonely... .".


I really like the illustration.  Worth a thousand words.  

Jim was lonely.  You're right.  The hardest thing to do is to love yourself.  Once you've got that knocked, it's okay.  
  


#16 darkstar

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 10:13 AM

QUOTE (gotothelight @ Dec 1 2009, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Has anyone read this book by Doug Cameron.. (who I guess, as a teenager, used to help Vince Treanor with the Doors sound stuff)? I just finished reading it (actually I got it yesterday and read the whole thing last night) and came away with the "something's wrong, something's not quite right" feeling. I found it very difficult to believe some of the 'stories' he was telling, and he seemed to know what was said in several private conversations that he was not a part of.. which struck me as odd. He completely trashed Bill Siddons in the book as well, which was a bit transparent for me since he worked with Vince and Vince has made it very clear how _he_ felt about Siddons. I actually started wondering if those were this guy Doug's feelings.. or if he was simply echoing what Mr Treanor has said.
And speaking of Mr Treanor, he didn't come off very well in the book either, although he's never come off well even when he speaks for himself (in my opinion). There is a chapter in the book that the author says is Vince's own words.. and when I read it.. I knew immediately that it _is_ Vince's own words. He comes off as negative, hateful, and very self-serving (and apologies to anyone who knows him)... but then he always does. I already knew to take whatever Vince says with a grain of salt since some of his 'facts' are not what he insists they are, and there were moments when I almost shut the book and said "enough" as I was reading what amounted to nothing more than a trash-fest in parts.
Anyhow.. has anyone else read this? I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on it. I sense it's embellished at best, and very little in the way of factual as well. The word "sensationalism" comes to mind.. big time.




Hi Diane.

I have been meaning to reply to this topic but I wanted to wait until I got my interview with Doug Cameron published.  I remembered you posting this topic about his book and I had the same reservations as you after I purchased and read the book myself.  If it had not been for you I would have never known about this book and I mentioned that fact to Doug Cameron.  I was curious as you to find out more about subjects that I had never read before in any other book or interview.

Prior to interviewing Doug I went through his book and picked out certain subjects that formed my questions. When I got a hold of Doug I was very straight forward and requested that he take his time answering the questions that I posed because as Jim Morrison always said, once the information is published you can't retract it.  

I told him that my questions were based on subject matter that had not been readily available in other sources and as such I indicated that fans would be interested in knowing something about the band that they had not been privy to before.  In other words, the way to get fan's attention is to give them something they previously did not know.

After I interviewed Doug Cameron I came away knowing a man that is a no bullshit kind guy who doesn't hold a grudge against Vince Treanor or any of the band members for any ill treatment he was subjected too during his days as a roadie with the Doors.  He was and still is a Doors fan and as such his loyalty remains.  

Considering he was in Vince's company a majority of the time his book does mirror some of the same sediments that Vince has posed over the years in his responses on different message boards.   Most significantly the ill feelings Vince Treanor has for Bill Siddons.

I must say that I have personally met Bill Siddons and I found him to be a genuine and honest man who has moved on with his life and now manages the band "Alice In Chains," among others. I did not find him to hold a grudge against anyone or any circumstances that happened during his days as the Doors Manager.  

It would be interesting to talk with other Doors roadies as I understand there were about 30 of them that were hired by Vince Treanor.  For the Doors being in existence for only 6 years, having 30 different roadies working for them at different times during their career seems like a significant amount of turn over of employees.

Diane, thanks again for turning me on to this book.  I hope you find Doug Cameron's interview interesting.








#17 mojosmoothy

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 11:57 AM

Where is this interview? Thanks T

#18 darkstar

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 01:21 PM

QUOTE (mojosmoothy @ May 18 2011, 03:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Where is this interview? Thanks T


Good question....here you go.  Thank you for your interest.

http://www.doors.com/magazine/cameron_interview.html

#19 mewsical

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 11:31 AM

Good interview!  Thanks for posting it here.

#20 bikerbrom

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 02:35 AM

QUOTE
My Interview with Doug Cameron
Author of Inside The Fire – My Strange Days With The Doors
By Sara Perry

9.      You mention that while in Vince Treanors’ apartment where you resided during your tensure with the Doors, you came across a letter written to Jim Morrison shortly after the Miami concert from a Dalton Clarke.  (Jim’s mother’s maiden name was Clarke).  You go on to say that you did not know how Vince would have this letter in his possession but your theory of Jim having thrown the letter away could have been the cause.  In consideration of the letter Jim received from Dalton Clarke brings me to the next question. You mention that Jim wrote a song called “Land Ho” in memory of his sea faring grandfather.  In your opinion do you think the writing of Land Ho had anything to with this letter that Jim received?

I've never drawn the connection between "Land Ho" and the letter from Dalton Clarke to Jim.  It is reasonable to conclude that Jim loved his grandfather.  The letter could have been a springboard.


I suppose that was this Dalton Clark, JDM's mother's father:

Dalton Frank Clarke, b. Marion Co., Kan., 25 Oct. 1887, d. Miramar, Fla., 9 Aug. 1969 [SSDI 390-07-0429; Florida Death Certificate 69-044929] m. Moundsville, W. Va., 16 Aug. 1909
-And the notes at the bottom of the webpage say:
6 -- Founder of the Worker's Co-Operative, and Socialist Party candidate for Governor of Pennsylvania in 1918, in 1933 Dalton Clarke was president of the "Unemployed Labor and Commodity Exchange", in Milwaukee, Wisconsin [Washington Post 31 March 1933, p. 5].

Clark's wife:
Anna Robinson Stidger, b. Marshall Co., W. Va., ... [ca. 1890], d. ... [living 1930]

notes at the foot of the webpage say:
7 -- Her brother, Rev. William Leroy Stidger (1885-1949), was an early twentieth-century preacher who brought modern marketing and publicity tactics to his crusade to save souls. Sinclair Lewis based "Elmer Gentry" on Stidger, a great-uncle of Jim Morrison.

(source 'Ancestry of Jim Morrison compiled by William Addams Reitwiesner' http://www.wargs.com/other/morrison.html )

Also see See more about the Rev. Sidger, who was a poet....

http://www.stidger.com/

http://www.stidger.com/poetry.jsp

There's a cheeky ryhme about the Rev. Sidger on that webpage:

"Boston, dear Boston
The City of baked beans and cod,
Where the Cabots speak just to the Lodges
And Stidger plays vaudeville for God."

-All of which makes this video segment more intriguing:
"minister at large"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOGOumtU8to

-And just look at this photo of Revd. Sidger's mother, Etta Robinson (1864-1894),I reckon there's a family resemblence:





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