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#21 darkstar

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 08:27 AM

I don’t understand the sensationalism that is resurrected every 2 or so years regarding Cliff Marston/Morrison.  This discussion has been debated on and off for the past 16 years and there is still no concrete evidence in the form of a DNA Test that would show proof positive once and for all that Cliff White/Marston/Morrison is really Jim Morrison’s son.  Until such time as a DNA test can be obtained and subsequently made public the evidence to date is purely speculative.  

You can visit the Google Groups Threads and find many topics on this subject that go back to the mid-1990’s to the present day.  Google does not censor or “archive” their posts and topics.  If you do decide to visit Google Groups for research you will come across a majority of the same names who continue to debate the Marston/Morrison soap opera on the Official Doors Website/Forum today.


I first heard about Cliff Marston back in 1993 when I received a newsletter from the DCM dated Summer 1993.  This news came in the form of a one page 8/12 X 11 snail mail newsletter.  The article was titled, “The Children’s Hour” By Patricia Butler.  In brief the article indicates that Alan Graham, x-brother in law of Jim Morrison was at the time promoting Cliff Marston as Cliff Morrison, Jim Morrison’s biological son.  The DCM contacted the Morrison family attorney, Brian Manion.  Manion contacted the Morrison Family and relayed the following statement, “Morrisons made it clear that while they knew of Marston and of Graham's involvement with him, they do not accept Marston's assertions of paternity.”

Further more the article goes on to state that, DNA would have to be collected from the alleged father, Jim Morrison which would require exhumation for positive identification which in all likelihood would never happen.  

“The Children’s Hour” article was republished in the first issue of the DCM #1 which came out in the Summer of 1993.

In the Spring of 1995 another article appeared in the DCM aka DCM #6, this article titled, “CLIFF MORRISON…OR MARSTON? That Is The Question, was conducted by: Anne Moore and Sue Scheider on July 13 1994.

This piece was an interview with Cliff Marsten who was going by the name Cliff Morrison and who was at the time of the interview appearing with his band, “The Lizard Son Band” at the Roxy on Sunset Blvd..  

The interview included additional commentary from Marstens’ then Manager, Matthew Mellon who by reference seemed irritated at some of the questions being asked.  A woman by the name of Barbara Butler was also present during this interview but of what relationship she is to Cliff was not noted.  

Cliff claimed that he had found out that Jim Morrison was his father 3 years ago, which would have been sometime in 1992.

Cliff indicated during the interview that his mother, a red haired lady, was downstairs in the club saying, “but she really can’t be interviewed. She’s already been talking to people all night…writing books and stuff like that. So we have to keep that pretty much down…  But there is a major weirdness about the whole thing."

I’m not willing to transcribe the entire interview but here are a few exchanges from the peice so those interested can get a feel for what was said.  If someone else has a copy of this interview maybe that person would be willing transcribe it and post it as a reply in this thread.


DCM ISSUE NO. 6
Spring 1995

CLIFF MORRISON…OR MARSTON? That Is The Question
by: Anne Moore and Sue Scheider
July 13 1994


A/S: Actually, we’ve heard a lot of different stories about you?

CLIFF M:  There are a whole bunch of different versions.

A/S: We’ve heard your mother had an affair with Jim?

CLIFF M:  Yeah.

A/S:  The second story that you are really Pam’s son and Pam didn’t want Jim to know she was having a baby and gave you away.  That’s the story that’s going around now.

CLIFF M:  The thing about the Courson family is that, I can’t speak about that, and I can’t speak about the Morrison family. Because I told them I wouldn’t do that. And uh…

MM:  That’s in order to protect the estate.

A/S: Does your Mom have any proof that you are Jim’s son?

CLIFF M: Does my Mom?…Yes.

A/S: Does she have any documentation?

CLIFF M: Does she need it?

A/S: I’d say you’re going to need it one of these days.

CLIFF M:  Yeah, bring them on.


A/S:  So as far as you know it’s just your mom’s word on it. She doesn’t have any documentation.

CLIFF M:  Me.

A/S:  You mentioned the Morrison estate. Have you been in touch with them?

CLIFF M:  No. The estate have nothin’ to do with this. Keep the estate out of it. My grandparents, we hardly know each other. My family, just leave it go.


A/S:  So you’ve had no contact with them?

MM:  Let’s go on with another question.

CLIFF M:  I can just tell you one thing (picks up the tape recorder and talks directly into it).  Let’s see. Jim Morrison of The Doors is my father and I’m Cliff Morrison. I’m from my father’s balls. Okay, there’s a lot of stuff that’s going to be said and done. I just let everybody bring it up against me. If they find fault let them bring it..if they don’t just let it…let it lie by. I’m not against anybody…even though you have all these questions and stuff…it’s all a line of the work.

END.

In the next issue of the DCM aka DCM #7 Summer/Fall 1995 several people, including myself, wrote to the magazine expressing our opinions in regards to the Cliff Marston/Morrison interview featured in DCM #6.  


LETTERS TO THE EDITOR

Regarding Cliff Morrison? –


DCM #6) Is Cliff Morrison/Marston really Jim’s son? You sent us your opinions and we’ve printed a representative sample. Sure, it IS stranger than fiction but the response ratio just happened to be 5:1, baby…against Cliff.

This was my response printed on page 4

Cliff’s attitude toward the journalist lacked creativity, imagination, and professionalism – perhaps due to his limited experience and education in his chosen profession.  Cliff himself makes his story unbelievable.

S, San Diego, California

Here are a few additional references followed by a sample of links for research purposes.

Cliff Morrison, son of Jim Morrison

The doors of perception have re-opened: Information, press, clips, pictures and our CD information for Cliff Morrison~The Lizard Sun Band featuring: Cliff Morrison - Vocals Tim Patrick - Bass Waylon Krieger - Guitar Phil George - Drums Eric Melz - Keyboards We love you, Jim loves you.

Cliff Morrison~The Lizard Sun Band
Official Website
http://www.lizardsun.com
Circa 1998



From the Guitar Site web page there is a posting by Waylon Krieger who played with Cliff Marston in reply to a thread titled, “The Real Deal”  The reply was made September 16 2000 at 16:40:30 which discredits Marstens’ credibility.  


As of Oct 14 2005 these threads/topics re:  Cliff Marston/Morrison existed on the LL:


http://messageboard.thedoors.com/index.php?showtopic=22655

http://messageboard.thedoors.com/index.php?showtopic=24272

http://messageboard.thedoors.com/index.php?showtopic=24534



GOOGLE GROUP THREADS GOING BACK FROM 1997/1998 TO THE PRESENT re: Cliff Marston

Any combination of names can be used in the search engine at google groups which will give a listing of returned results matching the names used.  Below is a sample:
  
  
alt.music.the-doors


Search: Cliff Marsten Cliff Marston
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.music.t...q=MARSTEN+Cliff
  
Cliff Morrison The Soap Opera Continues
Search: Cliff Morrison Jim Morrison
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.music.t...n+Jim+Morrison#
  
Search - Alan Graham & Cliff Morrison
http://groups.google.com/groups/search?hl=...+Cliff+Morrison


#22 MistyJm

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 08:37 AM

QUOTE (mewsical @ Aug 20 2009, 09:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Like you said, nothing going on except this freak-show, which seems to be winding down, as "Cliff" has vanished - along with his giant fonts, thank goodness - and all we've got now is a few "I was tolds."  Yawn.  

Writing styles are quite different between MJ and DoorsNYC - you'd think someone would spot that, but nooooo!


I've seen a lot on LL over time but indeed the Cliff topic must be one of the most confusing not making any sense topic I've seen there.

High light for me was MJ Really Moses coming there and have his say.  laugh.gif Well done M.  wink.gif

I don't post often there. Yes sometimes in the BMA Matrix and FF topics.

That's practicly the only reason I come there. The news on the releases and yeah sometimes I try to read some stuff on the General board. But it doesn't rock my socks.

There are some nice people over there though. LC is a sweetheart and has a great sense of humor. Fine lady.  She's a mod now, and I wish her nothing then the best.  smile.gif

#23 Onne

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 08:41 AM

QUOTE (Sacha @ Aug 19 2009, 06:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Bahh maybe Cliff has made the whole mom thing up. Maybe his mom never told him he was the offspring of Morrison. Its all in his head...

Anyways, the Cliff story is getting old, I smell fraud.



Personally I do not care if Cliff is Jim's son or not and when you think of it no one should, really.

It's no one's business, it's about him and his life only but I do think Cliff having come out in public with all of that
does make anyone wonder what are his actual intentions but in the same that's also tough to judge because that's
also his business. I think Jim Morrison had his own thing going on with being an artist and that is what people should focus on and not what other people choose to do with their own lives, Jim's DNA or not.

Sometimes that General forum does not seem to do much other than make people think about things that do not mean anything. All of us that got into The Doors, did so because of the music and honestly anyone that even knew Jim should do their best and not encourage those topics anymore. This is trashing Jim on so many levels and it's just disrespectful to
go on about someone's private life and Jim being sterile, I do not understand how come that information has to be shared.
It is distasteful and very sad.

#24 DeadAsADoorNail

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 08:44 AM

QUOTE (darkstar @ Aug 20 2009, 12:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don’t understand the sensationalism that is resurrected every 2 or so years regarding Cliff Marston/Morrison.  This discussion has been debated on and off for the past 16 years and there is still no concrete evidence in the form of a DNA Test that would show proof positive once and for all that Cliff White/Marston/Morrison is really Jim Morrison’s son.  Until such time as a DNA test can be obtained and subsequently made public the evidence to date is purely speculative.  

You can visit the Google Groups Threads and find many topics on this subject that go back to the mid-1990’s to the present day.  Google does not censor or “archive” their posts and topics.  If you do decide to visit Google Groups for research you will come across a majority of the same names who continue to debate the Marston/Morrison soap opera on the Official Doors Website/Forum today.


I first heard about Cliff Marston back in 1993 when I received a newsletter from the DCM dated Summer 1993.  This news came in the form of a one page 8/12 X 11 snail mail newsletter.  The article was titled, “The Children’s Hour” By Patricia Butler.  In brief the article indicates that Alan Graham, x-brother in law of Jim Morrison was at the time promoting Cliff Marston as Cliff Morrison, Jim Morrison’s biological son.  The DCM contacted the Morrison family attorney, Brian Manion.  Manion contacted the Morrison Family and relayed the following statement, “Morrisons made it clear that while they knew of Marston and of Graham's involvement with him, they do not accept Marston's assertions of paternity.”

Further more the article goes on to state that, DNA would have to be collected from the alleged father, Jim Morrison which would require exhumation for positive identification which in all likelihood would never happen.


The other thing I read was that Cliff is lying about his real age - between 45-50 years old. And not 40-41 years old circa 1968 when he was allegedly conceived by Geppetto.


#25 mewsical

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 08:49 AM

Jim may or may not have children in Texas and Germany, but who gives a rat's rear-end, honestly?  And it's just another one of those "Jim told me" things.  Why would he do tell that to a couple of comparative strangers, I wonder?  Perhaps he stupidly thought they'd keep their mouths shut, but then again, he didn't know he was going to die.  If he'd lived and caught wind of this gossip-fest, heaven help all of them.  

Jim was a private person when it came to his personal life.  I did talk to him about Pam and his family when we first spoke on the phone, but other than that, it was always about things he was doing in his life and not about women or other private matters.  His focus was on making major changes in those days, and that was what was interesting to me - not what sort of toothpaste he used, or whether he had children somewhere out there, or if he had flat feet, was sterile and/or impotent, etc.  It's very disrespectful, honestly.



#26 darkstar

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 09:10 AM

QUOTE (DeadAsADoorNail @ Aug 20 2009, 12:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The other thing I read was that Cliff is lying about his real age - between 45-50 years old. And not 40-41 years old circa 1968 when he was allegedly conceived by Geppetto.


In my opinion, the Marston/Morrison debate has been going on for 16 years and nothing has ever been proven as fact, just speculation.  It doesn't make sense why this debate continues on and on when there is no proof of positive identification.  Cliff Marston/Morrison came out in public claiming he was Jim Morrison's biologoical son and along with his followers there has been a lot of publicity surrounding the speculation for over a decade.  To be honest, I really thought this topic would have died out long ago due to lack of evidence.


#27 Sacha

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 09:30 AM

QUOTE
To be honest, I really thought this topic would have died out long ago due to lack of evidence.



Well some people have been keeping the fire alive with some dirty oil.

#28 mewsical

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 10:32 AM

QUOTE (Sacha @ Aug 20 2009, 10:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well some people have been keeping the fire alive with some dirty oil.


For some odd reason, they keep resurrecting these boring old threads from 2007 and even further back.  It's like nobody has a clue on how to start a new discussion.  


#29 Encuentro

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 11:04 AM

Just to add my two cents to a topic that I know very little about, it seems to me that a possible motive for this ongoing topic is that some people don't want to let Jim go. For them, if Jim has an offspring, then Jim lives on in some way. It's the same motive that convinces some people, usually young people, that Jim faked his own death and is hiding in Africa or something. When Julian Lennon began his music career in the early 80's, some people believed that he was the heir to the throne. There were some people who actually suggested that The Beatles should reunite with Julian Lennon standing in for John.



#30 darkstar

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 11:55 AM

QUOTE (Encuentro @ Aug 20 2009, 03:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just to add my two cents to a topic that I know very little about, it seems to me that a possible motive for this ongoing topic is that some people don't want to let Jim go. For them, if Jim has an offspring, then Jim lives on in some way. It's the same motive that convinces some people, usually young people, that Jim faked his own death and is hiding in Africa or something. When Julian Lennon began his music career in the early 80's, some people believed that he was the heir to the throne. There were some people who actually suggested that The Beatles should reunite with Julian Lennon standing in for John.


Excellent point!  Your absolutely right.  I guess some people just can't let go of their memories of Jim Morrison.  The continuted propagation and publicity of a person with no positive proof of paternity I suppose fills the void thats been missing since Morrison's death almost 40 years ago.


#31 mewsical

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 12:33 PM

QUOTE (Encuentro @ Aug 20 2009, 12:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just to add my two cents to a topic that I know very little about, it seems to me that a possible motive for this ongoing topic is that some people don't want to let Jim go. For them, if Jim has an offspring, then Jim lives on in some way. It's the same motive that convinces some people, usually young people, that Jim faked his own death and is hiding in Africa or something. When Julian Lennon began his music career in the early 80's, some people believed that he was the heir to the throne. There were some people who actually suggested that The Beatles should reunite with Julian Lennon standing in for John.


It has more to do with this ongoing feud with PK and Alan Graham than anything else, unfortunately.  

A little look at the money trail is also edifying.  

Jim dies and after about two or so years, Pam inherits his entire Estate as his common-law wife in 1974.  This cuts out all Jim's relatives, i.e. mother, father, sister, brother, and sister's children.  Pam conveniently dies just as the money is about to come to her.

This now leaves all the money to Pam's mother and father, Corky and Pearl Courson.  Legal proceedings are initiated by the Morrison parents, and the result is that the Estate is now split 50-50 between the Morrison parents and the Courson parents.  On their passing, as is now the case with the Morrison parents, the next in line on the Morrison side are Andy and Anne, who jointly control the Morrison share of the Estate.  

Anne was formerly married to Alan Graham for 22 years, and he is the father of her children Dylan, Tristin and Sefton, Jim's nephews and niece - there are also three grandchildren from their marriages.  Anne has children by her second marriage as well, also related to Jim through Anne.  

Andy is now single, but was married and has two children, also directly related to Jim.  

When they pass on, their children will inherit as they dispose, and so on.

Pearl Courson still survives, and controls the Courson share of the Estate.  When she passes on, her daughter Judy, Pam's sister, will likely inherit, and on her death, her children will inherit.

Alan, for reasons I am unfamiliar with, once was a supporter and manager of the peculiar "Cliff."  He became disenchanted with him and now tells anyone who has any real interest in this that Cliff is an imposter, a cheat, a liar, and other colorful names.  He was basically responsible for introducing Cliff to the Admiral - they all lived in the same neighborhood.  

If Cliff could have proved he was Jim's son, this could have opened a huge can of worms with the Estate.  But, for some odd reason, this DNA test was never performed, and Cliff is now once again roaming the internet, making specious claims and acting like a fool.

All I have to say is this was most likely about the money and not much to do with any familial feeling on Cliff's part.  He can 'grandpa' and 'grandma' all he wants and the bigger the fonts the sillier it gets, but it's laughable.  

Cliff is a former felon and probably learned a trick or two about con games in the pokey.  He comes off as an ignoramus with a modicum of musical talent.  Charlie Manson was a songwriter and musician, btw, and now that Phil Spector has been transferred to Corcoran, Manson is sending him notes, asking him to help him with his music career.  These type of people never stop their games, I guess.

Jim has no children, but he does have a pack of nieces and nephews and grandnieces and nephews, and that's enough of Jim's DNA running around for me.

#32 gotothelight

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 02:09 PM

QUOTE (Onne @ Aug 20 2009, 12:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sometimes that General forum does not seem to do much other than make people think about things that do not mean anything. All of us that got into The Doors, did so because of the music and honestly anyone that even knew Jim should do their best and not encourage those topics anymore. This is trashing Jim on so many levels and it's just disrespectful to
go on about someone's private life and Jim being sterile, I do not understand how come that information has to be shared.
It is distasteful and very sad.


I agree 100%, but unfortunately the people who knew Jim (however briefly) are the ones who _do_ encourage these topics, ranting on endlessly without any real facts to back up what they're saying. Yes, it's very disrespectful to Jim's memory on so many levels, and I'm surprised that the mods there.. and Jeff... allow it to go on. These people who "knew" Jim are the ones who have no respect for his memory, and they are the reason why that board is dead. No one wants to go there and be treated rudely and insulted by these people while they spew their bitter fabrications.

As far as Jim being sterile or not, that's no one's business, and if he indeed did confide that in someone, it certainly is a slap in the face to him when that person is posting it on a message board. I doubt he confided it though. From all I've heard about him from people who _were_ close to him, he was a private person.. and wouldn't confide something so very personal in someone who he knew for.. about a week.

#33 darkstar

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 02:12 PM

QUOTE (mewsical @ Aug 20 2009, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It has more to do with this ongoing feud with PK and Alan Graham than anything else, unfortunately.  

A little look at the money trail is also edifying.  

Jim dies and after about two or so years, Pam inherits his entire Estate as his common-law wife in 1974.  This cuts out all Jim's relatives, i.e. mother, father, sister, brother, and sister's children.  Pam conveniently dies just as the money is about to come to her.

This now leaves all the money to Pam's mother and father, Corky and Pearl Courson.  Legal proceedings are initiated by the Morrison parents, and the result is that the Estate is now split 50-50 between the Morrison parents and the Courson parents.  On their passing, as is now the case with the Morrison parents, the next in line on the Morrison side are Andy and Anne, who jointly control the Morrison share of the Estate.  

Anne was formerly married to Alan Graham for 22 years, and he is the father of her children Dylan, Tristin and Sefton, Jim's nephews and niece - there are also three grandchildren from their marriages.  Anne has children by her second marriage as well, also related to Jim through Anne.  

Andy is now single, but was married and has two children, also directly related to Jim.  

When they pass on, their children will inherit as they dispose, and so on.

Pearl Courson still survives, and controls the Courson share of the Estate.  When she passes on, her daughter Judy, Pam's sister, will likely inherit, and on her death, her children will inherit.

Alan, for reasons I am unfamiliar with, once was a supporter and manager of the peculiar "Cliff."  He became disenchanted with him and now tells anyone who has any real interest in this that Cliff is an imposter, a cheat, a liar, and other colorful names.  He was basically responsible for introducing Cliff to the Admiral - they all lived in the same neighborhood.  

If Cliff could have proved he was Jim's son, this could have opened a huge can of worms with the Estate.  But, for some odd reason, this DNA test was never performed, and Cliff is now once again roaming the internet, making specious claims and acting like a fool.

All I have to say is this was most likely about the money and not much to do with any familial feeling on Cliff's part.  He can 'grandpa' and 'grandma' all he wants and the bigger the fonts the sillier it gets, but it's laughable.  

Cliff is a former felon and probably learned a trick or two about con games in the pokey.  He comes off as an ignoramus with a modicum of musical talent.  Charlie Manson was a songwriter and musician, btw, and now that Phil Spector has been transferred to Corcoran, Manson is sending him notes, asking him to help him with his music career.  These type of people never stop their games, I guess.

Jim has no children, but he does have a pack of nieces and nephews and grandnieces and nephews, and that's enough of Jim's DNA running around for me.


Excellent synopsis and time line of events.  Thank you for posting it!


The first time I heard Alan Graham's name was from a posting that goes way back to 1992 where he was looking for investors for a Jim Morrison Video Documentary.  His promotion of Cliff Marston was never mentioned in this posting. Although I don't know the posters complete involvement in this Video Project, you will recognize his name.  

Subject: Jim Morrison/Doors Info
This is the only article in this thread
View: Original Format
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll
Date: 1992-12-16 07:34:57 PST



Hello again Doors fans,

I have been talking to Al Graham (Jim Morrison's Brother-in-Law) and
he has asked me to post this information for him.

He has his own Doors/Morrison fan club and other stuff. Here is
what he gave me.



: Investors wanted to help build Jim Morrison Museum
Contact Chris (619) 531-7933

: "The Lizard King - The Life and times of Jim Morrison)"
- a six part Video biography
- Part one "Legions of Ghosts"

- a one hour program narrated by A.R Graham, (Morrison's brother-in-
law), examines the late rock idol's true life
story from childhood until his supicious death in 1971.

- To order call 1-800-995-7939 or send $24.95 + $3.00 p/
to LIZZARD KING INC, 7825 Fay Ave #200, La Jolla, CA 92037

: Distributors wanted for the video program "The life and
times of Jim Morrison - Contact Chris Pearson (619) 531-7933

: Join the New LIZZARD KING Fan Club.
call 1-800-995-7939 or send $12.50 to the address above

: "WHO KILLED JIM MORRISON?" : A live musical requiem. Now
casting for male Baratone (Jim Morrison), female suprano (Morrison's
friend) and male tenor (Admiral). Contact Chris pearson at above
phone number. Also Drummer, Lead guitar and Organist. Mngrs & agts
welcome.


If you call these people, be sure to mention that you got the info
here. I hope that wasn't to tacky for me to do, but I know I would
have wanted someone to post the info if I didn't have it. Although
I'm not sure how many of you would like to play Jim Morrison's
father in a musical requiem. If there are any questions, e-mail me.

-Dave Dutkowski

Source: http://groups.google.com/groups?
q=Jim+Morrison+Doors&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=1992Dec16.090310.9441%
40iscsvax.uni.edu&rnum=6



As you know, this sort of "Jim Morrison" promotion for different projects wasn't anything new at the time because projects like this were being put together frequently during 1991-1993 while the pubicity was swirling around from the Oliver Stone movie.

You mentioned Alan Graham's involvement with Cliff Marston.  Some people have questioned the motivation in regards to this relationship with Marston that's why I gave a link to the Google Boards so the information can be researched.  There are topics/threads on those boards where Alan Graham tells his own story, in own words and answers peoples questions.  He may not give the answers that some expect but he does tell his story in his words and I'm sure we can agree that when a person expounds on their own story its best done in their own words instead of reading a story that has been passed down many times by many people because the end result become diluted.  We both know that watered down verisons only result in heresay which quickly turns to gossip.  

Of course its up to each and every reader to decide what they do or not believe but in regards to the Cliff White/Marston/Morrison subject the Google Boards are good place to start due to the wealth of archived material that is still available.

I can't imagine what the Morrison Family went through having to put up with people showing up at their house demanding that they support children who were posing as their son's offspring.  And to think for how many years this went on...it boggles the mind.  

I find it amazing that the Cliff White/Martson/Morrison story still attracts attention after all these years.  With no concrete evidence of paternity I can't understand why people would still be interested.








#34 mewsical

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 02:42 PM

The very same Dave Dutkowski who is now a moderator on the Doors board.

The Google groups link is n.g. now.  All the info is gone.  Alan discontinued his message board as well.  Not sorry about that myself!

I didn't realize that Cliff has two other siblings, and a person I least suspected to have the logic to suggest this, mentioned that at least it could be established that Cliff doesn't have a paternal relationship to those siblings by checking their mutual DNA.

As far as the Morrison family being bothered by oddballs claiming blood relationships, it isn't very helpful to their privacy when addresses show up on the internet.

#35 darkstar

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 02:49 PM

QUOTE (gotothelight @ Aug 20 2009, 06:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As far as Jim being sterile or not, that's no one's business, and if he indeed did confide that in someone, it certainly is a slap in the face to him when that person is posting it on a message board. I doubt he confided it though. From all I've heard about him from people who _were_ close to him, he was a private person.. and wouldn't confide something so very personal in someone who he knew for.. about a week.


I agree GTTL it's difficult for me to believe that Jim Morrison would admit such a thing to anyone. Above all the subject matter is very disrepectful.  

This is how I get through things like this when I read such disrespectful things...We both know from reading Jim's interviews how guarded he was and how careful he chose his words.  Remember that interview with John Carpenter from the LA Free Press?  I love that interview because towards the end Jim tells Babe Hill he has to learn to "curb his tongue" while speaking to the press.

It was interviews such as this one from Carpenter and a few others that convinced me that Jim would never devulge such personal information to the press. Jim knew from previous experience what the consequences would be.  Of course this is my personal opinion but it does help to think about the quotes from Jim's interviews as it helps me just blow off the nasty, questionable commentary that seems to show up on a rotation basis from month to month and year to year.

Excerpt From John Carpenter's Interview with Jim Morrison -
conducted partially inside The Phone Booth on Santa Monica Blvd  
1968


Babe: That's what turns me off to some of the hippie chicks. I guess I'm old fashioned enough to still want some femininity and expect a little mystery. But those chicks in Levis and scraggly hair really turn me off.

JM: I like chicks in Levis. My taste is like whoever approaches me, I think it's groovy.

JC: Sounds pretty exhausting.

Babe: You know what's a groovy word? Bellwether: leader of a mindless crowd. That's what you are, Jim, the leader of a mindless crowd.

JM: Babe, that's what I mean. You got to learn to curb your tongue. I can see what it will be like. John would say, "and then Babe said you know what you are Jim? The leader of a mindless crowd." If you print that, John, I won't kill you, I'll haunt you. They all have minds.

Maybe collectively. . .a crowd together really has no mind. Individually everybody does. They all have bitchin' minds. Like, I bet there's more philosophy in some 16 year old chick's mind than you ever dreamed of in your whole cigarette. Some of those letters to those fan magazines are really lonely and deep and open. Some of them are bullshit. I don't read many, but some that I've read really knocked me out. Really open, sincere. Anyway, you got to learn to hold your tongue. Can you remember that?

Babe: I'll remember that. I'll keep silent like deep water. Whenever I say anything from now on, it will be such a profundity that you guys will just fall out of your chairs.



HOWARD SMITH OF THE VILLAGE VOICE INTERVIEWS JIM MORRISON –
THE DOORS OFFICE, LOS ANGELES –
NOVEMBER 6, 1969


Howard: Back at the beginning of The Doors you seem to be model of the year. You couldn’t pick up a fashion magazine or some magazine without those sultry pictures.

Jim: Sulky too.

Howard: Sulky?

Jim: Well you know…..I was so…..in vogue.

Howard: What did it mean to you at that time?

Jim: I must have been out of my mind. To do….can you imagine? Can you imagine doing that?

Howard: No, that’s why I’m asking you.

Jim: Posing for a picture. Can you imagine? And you know, really looking in the camera and posing. It’s insane. I must have been out of my mind. If I had the whole thing to do over again…..I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t do it.

Howard: What did you think during that time?

Jim: I thought I knew what I was doing. I thought I knew what I was doing. And the whole thing about a photograph is once it’s done you can’t destroy it. It’s there forever. So can you imagine when I’m 80 years old and I have to look at myself posing for those pictures. It’s to late. This guys trying to put me on a bummer man.

Jim: (Pause) That’s alright Howard go ahead.

Howard: Un, also back in the beginning there was also all this talk about your sex appeal. About how all women of different ages…..I wrote that in the Voice way before…..you know, pretty early.

Jim: That’s another thing see….talk gets around crazy talk like that and what happens, you know? (pause) That’s a difficult burden to bear. It is…cause we all know no one is any sexier than anyone else, right? Everyone’s got the same equipment unless biologically you got mixed up or something. We’re all about the same. (phone rings)

Howard: (sarcastically) Yeah well there you were with the leather pants….

Jim: (raises voice) Yeah and it’s guys like you man….it’s the reporters…it’s the press, people like that that create this insanity. That make up this stuff and then people start believing it.

Howard: You weren’t consciously playing that?

Jim: Hell no.

Howard: And you didn’t dig it?

Jim: (pause) Well I must admit that there were occasions when uh….having a reputation like that did help me out in some tight situations. Plus I got to meet a lot of groovy ladies that uh…otherwise you know…they probably wouldn’t have noticed me. So in that respect it was all to the good.












#36 darkstar

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 02:54 PM

[quote name='mewsical' post='40511' date='Aug 20 2009, 06:42 PM']The Google groups link is n.g. now.  All the info is gone.  Alan discontinued his message board as well.  Not sorry about that myself!

quote]

Sorry about that - the link used to work and I used it for my source in my archives.

Try this link

http://groups.google.com/groups/search?hl=...s=Search+Groups[/

#37 gotothelight

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 03:11 PM

QUOTE (mewsical @ Aug 20 2009, 06:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I didn't realize that Cliff has two other siblings, and a person I least suspected to have the logic to suggest this, mentioned that at least it could be established that Cliff doesn't have a paternal relationship to those siblings by checking their mutual DNA.
  I may be mistaken, but my take on the two siblings comment is that it's referring to the supposed "other" children of Morrison...one in Texas.. one in Europe.... neither of which there is any known factual proof of.

#38 gotothelight

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 03:13 PM

QUOTE (darkstar @ Aug 20 2009, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jim: (raises voice) Yeah and it's guys like you man….it's the reporters…it's the press, people like that that create this insanity. That make up this stuff and then people start believing it.


Uh-huh.

#39 mewsical

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 04:26 PM

QUOTE (darkstar @ Aug 20 2009, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (mewsical @ Aug 20 2009, 06:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Google groups link is n.g. now.  All the info is gone.  Alan discontinued his message board as well.  Not sorry about that myself!


Sorry about that - the link used to work and I used it for my source in my archives.

Try this link

http://groups.google.com/groups/search?hl=...s=Search+Groups


Thanks, DS.

#40 HWY4371

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 05:15 PM

is not work  main page






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