176 replies to this topic

[mewsical]

Marianne says that she ended up in Paris with Jean and that she did not meet Morrison.  So, surely anything else she had to say would have to be hearsay.  She says she was in 'bad shape.'  She also says that she has become part of the mythology.  If she did not meet Jim, was in bad shape, and uses the word mythology, that's three out of three for me.  

I spoke with Bill when he got back from Paris.  He told us all it was heart failure.  That was also what he indicated in the telex.   Why would he lie?  He certainly wasn't interested in protecting anyone from criminal prosecution, if it was appropriate.  I don't understand the motives for a cover-up.  So - Jim died of an overdose, from bad heroin he bought in a local night club from two unidentified men who are nowhere to be found.  And?  What does that prove exactly?

[Ia woman]

some times things get lost in translation on message boards....
I feel like mewsical and I were just looking at the fact that an injury and life style could have contributed

I respect mewsical and sallys input!

thanks guys!

[MO2826]

If there was a cover-up, which I think most of you agree with, then 80% of what's been said is not true. And that means you are building your theories not based on facts but distractors. And if you begin a theory based on wrong and twisted information it's obvious that you will never get there, to the truth. And here is one:

It's not possible that Jim died of an heroin overdose. It's not possible. Why?
Simply because you can't overdose smoking heroin. And although Jim started using heroin in the states and he began to snort it, in Paris that's not how he was using the drug. In Paris Jim learned a new technique that allowed him to smoke it. Jim was smoking heroin in Paris, not snorting it. And like I said previously, you can't overdose on heroin if you are smoking it. Because you fall sleep.


"Heroin can be administered in a number of ways, including snorting and injection. It may also be smoked by inhaling the vapors produced when heated (known as "chasing the dragon").
Large doses of heroin can be fatal. The drug can be used for suicide or, as in the case of Sigmund Freud, physician-assisted suicide. But not when smoked." - in wikipedia Heroin History

[PTLWP]

A one page feature regarding this topic was in Time magazine this week.

[Salli]

some times things get lost in translation on message boards....
I feel like mewsical and I were just looking at the fact that an injury and life style could have contributed

I respect mewsical and sallys input!

thanks guys!

Glad you respect Mewsical-Sally's input, but that is the input of one person.

I spell my name SALLI.  I have for decades.

Mewsical-SALLY and I are definitely not the same person.

We do not agree at all on the cause of Jim's death, any more than Danny or Pamela or Marianne or John Densmore would agree with Mewsical's views on Jim's death.

[Salli]

If there was a cover-up, which I think most of you agree with, then 80% of what's been said is not true. And that means you are building your theories not based on facts but distractors. And if you begin a theory based on wrong and twisted information it's obvious that you will never get there, to the truth. And here is one:

It's not possible that Jim died of an heroin overdose. It's not possible. Why?
Simply because you can't overdose smoking heroin. And although Jim started using heroin in the states and he began to snort it, in Paris that's not how he was using the drug. In Paris Jim learned a new technique that allowed him to smoke it. Jim was smoking heroin in Paris, not snorting it. And like I said previously, you can't overdose on heroin if you are smoking it. Because you fall sleep.
"Heroin can be administered in a number of ways, including snorting and injection. It may also be smoked by inhaling the vapors produced when heated (known as "chasing the dragon").
Large doses of heroin can be fatal. The drug can be used for suicide or, as in the case of Sigmund Freud, physician-assisted suicide. But not when smoked." - in wikipedia Heroin History

And of course you were there.

I was told Jim snorted the drug that night.

BTW, you can die of smoking heroin. It just depends on the state of your body and the state of the other drugs you may have taken and how much you smoke. Heroin still depresses the breathing, no matter how it is taken.

[Ia woman]

Glad you respect Mewsical-Sally's input, but that is the input of one person.

I spell my name SALLI.  I have for decades.

Mewsical-SALLY and I are definitely not the same person.

We do not agree at all on the cause of Jim's death, any more than Danny or Pamela or Marianne or John Densmore would agree with Mewsical's views on Jim's death.

I believe I said Mewsical and Salli's input...I dont know how that infers you are one person
and I wrote that quickly so I spelled your name wrong.

Not sure why you are seemingly upset with me

clinical things are of interest to me, because it's what I do for a living
it's not my intent to offend


(except for worm man...lol!)

[MO2826]

& how do you know what was in Morrison's heart? As well as what he may have thought of his contemporaries? Or that he & Pam were trying to go cold turkey in Paris?

Well Jym, I have my sources - like a couple of people who post here at John's board, they also have their own sources which they don't reveal. I wrote that post based on a few pages that I was sent by an author who is writing a story about a famous american poet who died at the age of 27 in Paris. I feel privileged to be one of the few people who has read some passages of this story. And from what I read this story provides an amazing insight into the mind and heart of Jim Morrison. The story is called "The Paradise" and it tells, or if you prefer speculates, about the frame of mind the poet was in during his last days in Paris. The story is written from the perspective of the poet himself. Here's another short passage from this story:

    "He paid the bill and sneaked away into the twilight. This is when the cars return. The evening falls covering the sky like a purple poppy red at the centre. Traffic lights, the boats in the Seine float like shadows on the water wink. Up and down, up and down, smooth. As he walks along the river we continue to hear his thoughts:
       'Ha! There is it, the garden. There where cats breed on the loose and man keeps a memory of his destiny (or freedom, but man doesn’t know that). The garden of tombstones and stone angels watches over the cold cool confidence of the dead. I’m going there to these crumbs of immortality, chunk of land where peace abides, freezes over. Let’s cross the street and enter. The gates are open.'
       He crossed the street. 'Trapped in a tight ass my joy has turned to excrement!' - he exclaimed, shouting at the cars and laughing for the first time in 40 hours. It was decided, tonight it will be. His brain had chosen the day with celestial precision telling of events to come. He felt confident, and his heart began to hope again. He stopped hurring and worrying, the plan cheered him up.
       He enters the cemetery for the third time this week and he walks to his favourite place: the three trunk tree, at the bottom end on the right. Still holding a notebook and the pen in his hand he sat there on the grass in the little hill that gave him the benefit of a view over the substance and succulence of the dead."

The format in which the author is writing "The Paradise" resembles Edgar Allan Poe short stories. Some passages are poetically sublime and the magic is everywhere, sweating in every pore of every word. This short story together with another 3 ("The Jungle", "Trilogy" and another) are all directly related to "The Paradise" (the second on the book whose title is not defined yet according to what the author told me).

And of course you were there.

Well you never know, maybe I was
in another incarnation perhaps

Maybe I was the Count, that villain who could have become a human being had he survived - like Marienne faithful said. Ah! Marienne Faithfull. The one who says she never met Jim Morrison. However, I have a strong feeling that she is lying. But aren't they all?
I think she saw Jim at least 2 times but I could be wrong and maybe she really didn't meet Jim, only saw him dead; and seeing a dead person is not exactly meeting him. And if this was it then she is not lying.
Imagine for example that unlike what she says, she didn't stay in the apartment waiting for the count to come back. Instead she went with him to Jim's apartment to drop Pam after a party that Jim didn't go to. And when they got there they saw Jim dead. I have a feeling this might be what happened. The other scenario is that she met Jim once and then a second time when Jim was dead.
And so it's obvious to me why she denies having seen Jim Morrison: "I had nothing to do with this guy death. Why should I involve myself in this if I had nothing to do with what happened? I saw him dead yes, but if I admit this they will come for me and ask me questions, and if there is one thing I don't need at this moment of my life and career is to be wrongly associated with this guy's death. I was at the right place in the wrong time. Pam, can you please forget that I was here? You know how they are, and you know that it's unnecessary to say that I was here when we came to take you home."

I was told Jim snorted the drug that night.

This could be a distractor: that Jim snorted heroin that night. Because if you had been told that Jim was smoking heroin, not snorting it, while he was in Paris, then the chances for him to have died of a heroin overdose would drastically decrease. So this snort of heroin was needed to assure the overdose theory.
Jim loved smoking, he enjoyed smoking. It's a kind of pleasure many of us feel, inhaling smoke.
If lies and misinformation have been a constant regarding Jim's death, then this information might well be one of them. And so far it has worked out perfectly because while the people think that Jim snorted the drug that night, they don't think of other possibilities - and the truth might be hid in these other possibilities. So yes, to say that Jim snorted it that night is perfect to deviate the fan's attention.

But okay, I am an open-minded person and I don't exclude the possibility that Jim snorted it, although I'm almost sure that as soon as Jim found out that he could use the drug by smoking it, he prefered inhaling its vapours than snorting it.

Salli, we know Jim liked coke and we know he snorted it. But do you know if Jim also smoked it in a water pipe? I have a feeling Jim liked to smoke it on a water pipe. And so Jim might have enjoyed smoking heroin on a water pipe also. Or on foil. But does anyone know when the foil method began and was introduced to addicts who had panic of needles (which is my case)? And where did smoking heroin on foil began? In France? Italy? Holland? or the USA? How old smoking heroin on foil is?

This is a question that I have been asking myself for about 10 years. Because I don't like snorting (maybe this is a phobia I got from some kind of trauma), my right nostril is almost closed and if it wasn't the foil method I would have never used heroin because I faint at the sight of needles. I don't know how doctors and nurses took blood from me when I needed to make blood tests. Once I fainted at the hospital and every time I need to make blood tests I can't sleep the night before.
If any of you can help with some historical information on the foil method, please share it with us or post a link.

BTW, you can die of smoking heroin. It just depends on the state of your body and the state of the other drugs you may have taken and how much you smoke. Heroin still depresses the breathing, no matter how it is taken.

True, heroin depresses the breathing but exactly because it depresses the breathing you fall asleep in the meantime. Many times I fell asleep with the foil on my hand, and if you are sleeping, how can you keep on smoking? And thus, how can you die?
I took heroin for almost 13 years and I was drinking heavily during that time as well. So heavily that now I have a disease provoked by excess of drinking. How heavily was I drinking? Real heavy, if you take in consideration that I was not in a good shape. And this means that I was very thin, weak and nervous system almost collapsing. I was drinking heavily. I used to drink without eating, heroin for breakfast, whisky for lunch, heroin again, then whisky for tea and more of each for dinner. All this without anything in my stomach - add to that 2 packs of cigarretes a day and you will conclude that MO2826 was running on heavy fuel. But, as you can see, I didn't die.
I don't mean to say that I abused it all more than Jim, but one also has to see things in proportion to each person physical constitution, there are a number of factors to be taken into account if you wish to make a comparison, factors such as: weight and height, eating etc.
Back then I was physically very fragile and although Jim abused substances a lot, I believe that at least Jim ate better than I did during that period of my life.
I used to wake up at 7.30 am, or 10 am - depending on the days and my schedule at school - and very often my first meal would be around 11 pm.
Salli, I'm sure you agree that I was leading a real heavy lifestyle.

Yes I know, I was crazy and I destroyed my health. Now, after 20 years of drug and alcohol abuse I have my remedy: a disease that doesn't allow me to drink not even a single beer. But I am learning to look upon my illness as a blessing, because now my lifestyle has changed, definitely. And deep down inside I know I chose this disease, back when I was up there looking upon my life, maybe.

The only way his death defines him is to identify the frame of mind he was in when he died and the mind set of the people around him.

Very true Salli. Very true. And that's exactly why the truth about Jim's death is important. I'm sure that Jim never wanted all this secrecy around his death. I am sure he wouldn't like it. He would feel sad and mad, crushed at heart, to know they have lied. Because in a certain sense it's like spitting on him and preventing the fans to know of the darkness he was feeling back then. If he was here now he most probably would say with bitter agony and extreme disappointment: "A testimony laid to waste".


"When my ugly big car won't climb this hill,
I'll write a suicide note on a hundred dollar bill
'cos if you wanna run cool, if you wanna run cool
yes if you wanna run cool, you got to run
on heavy, heavy fuel"
- heavy fuel Dire Straits

Three songs in the On every street album seem to be a sort of "tribute" to some dead musicians such as Elvis - the only rocker who is directly mentioned in the song "Calling Elvis".
But in other songs like "On every street" and "Heavy fuel", Mark Knoffler seems to be talking about two other dead musicians. And a few times I've thought that "Heavy fuel" could be about Jim Morrison.

"I love the babes, don't get me wrong
hey, that's why I wrote this song."

Babes are a reference to women, true, but it can also be reference to a person, in a very subtle way. How about... Babe Hill?
It's possible.
And the lines: "When my ugly big car won't climb this hill / I'll write a suicide note on a hundred dollar bill" are far from being innocent, and so it's possible that Mark got the inspiration for these lines while thinking of someone in particular, someone in the music scene.  

[mewsical]

If there was a cover-up, which I think most of you agree with, then 80% of what's been said is not true. And that means you are building your theories not based on facts but distractors. And if you begin a theory based on wrong and twisted information it's obvious that you will never get there, to the truth. And here is one:

It's not possible that Jim died of an heroin overdose. It's not possible. Why?
Simply because you can't overdose smoking heroin. And although Jim started using heroin in the states and he began to snort it, in Paris that's not how he was using the drug. In Paris Jim learned a new technique that allowed him to smoke it. Jim was smoking heroin in Paris, not snorting it. And like I said previously, you can't overdose on heroin if you are smoking it. Because you fall sleep.
"Heroin can be administered in a number of ways, including snorting and injection. It may also be smoked by inhaling the vapors produced when heated (known as "chasing the dragon").
Large doses of heroin can be fatal. The drug can be used for suicide or, as in the case of Sigmund Freud, physician-assisted suicide. But not when smoked." - in wikipedia Heroin History

Although I disagree with a cover-up, which would imply that ANY of these people had a half a brain, good point.  Chasing the dragon in the loo seems a tiny bit inconvenient.  Surely he could have flagged a cab and gone home for that one.

[Salli]

Although I disagree with a cover-up, which would imply that ANY of these people had a half a brain, good point.  Chasing the dragon in the loo seems a tiny bit inconvenient.  Surely he could have flagged a cab and gone home for that one.

A cab? Or not?

[Salli]

I believe I said Mewsical and Salli's input...I dont know how that infers you are one person
and I wrote that quickly so I spelled your name wrong.

Not sure why you are seemingly upset with me

clinical things are of interest to me, because it's what I do for a living
it's not my intent to offend
(except for worm man...lol!)

You did spell my name with a "Y".  

I corrected you because recently Mewsical and I had a problem with a member of this board who swore we were only one person and not the two that we are. Sally has had to point out several times that we spell our names differently and we are two individuals, not one.

I was simply specifying spelling and individuality.

I'm not upset with you.

What do you do for a living? You can PM me if you like. Over the years I've had to do a great deal of medical research in the fields of oncology, cardiology, respiratory function and other areas. Helped at one point with a book on strokes and testing results on medical treatment for them.

[Stuart]

The Rock n Roll circus building is up for rent my friend told me in paris.

[Stuart]

Here is another pic of Mr Sam Bernett(on the left)-

http://festivalbdlexy54.oldiblog.com/sites...oto_1262166.jpg

About the"Beard" issue, it's quite possible bernett made a mistake or jim had some facial growth. either way i do believe what he says about jim in the rock n roll circus to be true

[jym]

Well Jym, I have my sources - like a couple of people who post here at John's board, they also have their own sources which they don't reveal. I wrote that post based on a few pages that I was sent by an author who is writing a story about a famous american poet who died at the age of 27 in Paris. I feel privileged to be one of the few people who has read some passages of this story. And from what I read this story provides an amazing insight into the mind and heart of Jim Morrison. The story is called "The Paradise" and it tells, or if you prefer speculates, about the frame of mind the poet was in during his last days in Paris. The story is written from the perspective of the poet himself. Here's another short passage from this story:

    "He paid the bill and sneaked away into the twilight. This is when the cars return. The evening falls covering the sky like a purple poppy red at the centre. Traffic lights, the boats in the Seine float like shadows on the water wink. Up and down, up and down, smooth. As he walks along the river we continue to hear his thoughts:
       'Ha! There is it, the garden. There where cats breed on the loose and man keeps a memory of his destiny (or freedom, but man doesn’t know that). The garden of tombstones and stone angels watches over the cold cool confidence of the dead. I’m going there to these crumbs of immortality, chunk of land where peace abides, freezes over. Let’s cross the street and enter. The gates are open.'
       He crossed the street. 'Trapped in a tight ass my joy has turned to excrement!' - he exclaimed, shouting at the cars and laughing for the first time in 40 hours. It was decided, tonight it will be. His brain had chosen the day with celestial precision telling of events to come. He felt confident, and his heart began to hope again. He stopped hurring and worrying, the plan cheered him up.
       He enters the cemetery for the third time this week and he walks to his favourite place: the three trunk tree, at the bottom end on the right. Still holding a notebook and the pen in his hand he sat there on the grass in the little hill that gave him the benefit of a view over the substance and succulence of the dead."

The format in which the author is writing "The Paradise" resembles Edgar Allan Poe short stories. Some passages are poetically sublime and the magic is everywhere, sweating in every pore of every word. This short story together with another 3 ("The Jungle", "Trilogy" and another) are all directly related to "The Paradise" (the second on the book whose title is not defined yet according to what the author told me).
Well you never know, maybe I was
in another incarnation perhaps

Well, the other people who knew Jim are known, not anonymous, as is their relationship with Jim. If your friend has written a book about Jim fine, but what's that person's association with Jim, if it's non-fiction then the provenance is utmost. If it's fiction well, it's anybody's guess as to what was in Jim's heart or any of the above questions, but if it is fiction it should stated as so, not as fact. I guess a proviso would be historical fiction that usually draws on people who knew the subject or diaries, writings etc. Just prove you have some provenance to comment on these things & we'll listen. As for being an reincarnate, well that's about the response I expected.

[Stuart]

More Articles about the bernett book-

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=114&sid=1185735

http://www.centredaily.com/entertainment/m...ory/149507.html

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/shar...m_Morrison.html

http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/20...orrison_died_in

[DeadAsADoorNail]

Marianne says that she ended up in Paris with Jean and that she did not meet Morrison.  So, surely anything else she had to say would have to be hearsay.  She says she was in 'bad shape.'  She also says that she has become part of the mythology.  If she did not meet Jim, was in bad shape, and uses the word mythology, that's three out of three for me.  

I spoke with Bill when he got back from Paris.  He told us all it was heart failure.  That was also what he indicated in the telex.   Why would he lie?  He certainly wasn't interested in protecting anyone from criminal prosecution, if it was appropriate.  I don't understand the motives for a cover-up.  So - Jim died of an overdose, from bad heroin he bought in a local night club from two unidentified men who are nowhere to be found.  And?  What does that prove exactly?

If Jim had died of unnatural causes, then Siddons, and all parties involved would have wanted a criminal investigation if it came to be that Jim succumbed to foul play.

The insult behind Sam Bernett's story is he NEVER claimed or alluded that the two drugs dealers (were they underworld criminals?) forced him to keep his mouth shut about Jim's death. There is no indication of that Barret was threaten to keep silent or suffer consequences. For that he is a cold blooded coward. Why did he wait so long to divulge his hoax of a story? His account reads like an episode out of The Sopranos.

[mewsical]

If Jim had died of unnatural causes, then Siddons, and all parties involved would have wanted a criminal investigation if it came to be that Jim succumbed to foul play.

The insult behind Sam Bernett's story is he NEVER claimed or alluded that the two drugs dealers (were they underworld criminals?) forced him to keep his mouth shut about Jim's death. There is no indication of that Barret was threaten to keep silent or suffer consequences. For that he is a cold blooded coward. Why did he wait so long to divulge his hoax of a story? His account reads like an episode out of The Sopranos.

It's an assumption what Bill and all parties involved would have wanted.  The Admiral and Mrs. Morrison saw no point in leaving for Paris from Guam, as Jim was already buried when they got the news.  They did not dispute the medical findings.  Neither did anyone else in his family.

If Jim bought heroin and used heroin - which had not been established at that time -  that is not a criminal act, per se, because he died.  And the doctor said the death was natural.  Try and put yourself in Bill's place for a moment.  What are you going to do?  Stand there and argue with a medical professional while the body is packed in its coffin and the burial is scheduled?  And a French medical professional at that, who doesn't speak English and you don't speak French?  Bill had access to lawyers in the States, notably John Frankenheimer, and I cannot imagine that he didn't speak with Jac Holzman as well.  

The insurance companies who held policies on Jim's life paid off without a murmur.  Insurance adjusters are notoriously suspicious, yet they accepted the medical findings as well.

[jym]

The insurance companies who held policies on Jim's life paid off without a murmur.  Insurance adjusters are notoriously suspicious, yet they accepted the medical findings as well.

Good point! Wish I had thought of it. There's a group that won't let go if they think they hold onto a pay out.

[mewsical]

Good point! Wish I had thought of it. There's a group that won't let go if they think they hold onto a pay out.

This is pure speculation, but it's likely that they had investigators in France speak with the doctors, etc., just to ensure that there was nothing suspicious about Jim's death.  

[Salli]

If there was an investigation, the doctors would have to stick by their verdict as their conclusions had became a matter of official record.

Whether the way Jim died was the truth or not, when everyone immediately concerned with the death, managment, record company, doctors, and French death records all stipulate to death by heart attack or heart failure, than the insurance company has no reason not to pay off the insurance claim.

If you want the money you claim natural death or whatever else pays off on the deceased insured person.