68 replies to this topic

[Tom513]

First let me say it is a honour to talk to a legend. My question might sound dumb but i was wondering what Jim's drink of choice was scotch, bourbon, vodka or was it what ever was there. I'm a big fan and thank you for this site it's great. Thanks again Tom513........also how did you and Robby get into the band. Have a great year. Thanks.

[mutenostrilagony]

First let me say it is a honour to talk to a legend. My question might sound dumb but i was wondering what Jim's drink of choice was scotch, bourbon, vodka or was it what ever was there. I'm a big fan and thank you for this site it's great. Thanks again Tom513........also how did you and Robby get into the band. Have a great year. Thanks.

Hi tom, I am not john but am tempted to answer this question while you are waiting for his reply, I have read that jim liked his spirits, beer and wine, he liked his corona (a good mexican beer) he would drink the bar out! John was at a meditation class where he met ray, and one day introduced robby to ray who was also into meditation robby and john were already in a band called the pyschedlic rangers before they joined the doors.  Anyway, welcome to the forum.

[mewsical]

Regrettably, Jim was an alcoholic.  If he hadn't been, he would likely still be with us.

[elshaman]

Beer

[Salli]

Jack Daniels

[Tom513]

Hi tom, I am not john but am tempted to answer this question while you are waiting for his reply, I have read that jim liked his spirits, beer and wine, he liked his corona (a good mexican beer) he would drink the bar out! John was at a meditation class where he met ray, and one day introduced robby to ray who was also into meditation robby and john were already in a band called the pyschedlic rangers before they joined the doors.  Anyway, welcome to the forum.

Thanks everybody

[Enterprise]

Thanks everybody

The favorite was the thrice distilled, old Irish (Jim was Irish also) whiskey; Bushmills.

[mewsical]

The favorite was the thrice distilled, old Irish (Jim was Irish also) whiskey; Bushmills.

Jim's father's family was from Scotland.

[mojosmoothy]

Jim's father's family was from Scotland.

They traced all our origins from Africa,yes we broke into groups and regions but we're all part of a small family.Italian,Irish,Jap,German,Scotts,Kenyan, Iraq,Iran,we all started in AfriKA.So stop and get a grip people and love each other one more time.Everybody drinks,but Jimmy was an alcoholic and therefore he's dead,too much too fast.Do you want to last?

[mewsical]

They traced all our origins from Africa,yes we broke into groups and regions but we're all part of a small family.Italian,Irish,Jap,German,Scotts,Kenyan, Iraq,Iran,we all started in AfriKA.So stop and get a grip people and love each other one more time.Everybody drinks,but Jimmy was an alcoholic and therefore he's dead,too much too fast.Do you want to last?

The "Jim is/was Irish" seems to crop up occasionally as some sort of glorification or excusing of his drinking habits, as if being Irish automatically guarantees a drinking problem possibly coupled with great writing talent!  

Over on Tom DiCillo's blog, he has recently posted in the comments section, about a conversation he had with Dylan, Jim's nephew, in which Dylan was impassioned about alcoholism being a disease.  This is true.  Don't know if you've checked out Tom's blog yet - he's a trip!  As a fellow film-maker, I think you'll find some common ground!  

http://www.tomdicillo.com/blog/

Click on the 47 comments link on the Fragmental entry.  

Part of the post:

"One of Jim’s nephews took serious issue with me when I innocently mentioned Jim’s drinking to him. He informed me quite strenuously that alcoholism is not something you choose, but a disease. His delivery sucked but his point was valid and important. It greatly affected how I shaped the film."



  

[jym]

Is this the 2nd most common thread after what books did Jim read?

The answer to both? All of them.  

[MeagerFood521]

T.  Get John's book...RIDERS ON THE STORM...it answers all the questions you may have.  You can probably get is 'used' at Alibris.com.  Jacky

First let me say it is a honour to talk to a legend. My question might sound dumb but i was wondering what Jim's drink of choice was scotch, bourbon, vodka or was it what ever was there. I'm a big fan and thank you for this site it's great. Thanks again Tom513........also how did you and Robby get into the band. Have a great year. Thanks.

[Bushmills]

With all due respect, I feel the word "disease" is used much too broadly these days.  To call alcoholism a disease is also calling smoking a disease, pedophilia a disease, and most other things some people do, which they claim they can't control.  We need to take ownership of our own actions and impulses, and either continue with clear concious (with the obvious exception of pedophilia and anything else that hurts others), or make changes.  But to claim alcoholism is a disease insinuates we are powerless to overcome it.  True, help is often required, but essentially it's the person who overcomes their struggle.

In Jim's case, was he an alcoholic?  I wasn't there and have no idea, but in answer to the original poster's question - Bushmills of course

[mewsical]

With all due respect, I feel the word "disease" is used much too broadly these days.  To call alcoholism a disease is also calling smoking a disease, pedophilia a disease, and most other things some people do, which they claim they can't control.  We need to take ownership of our own actions and impulses, and either continue with clear concious (with the obvious exception of pedophilia and anything else that hurts others), or make changes.  But to claim alcoholism is a disease insinuates we are powerless to overcome it.  True, help is often required, but essentially it's the person who overcomes their struggle.

In Jim's case, was he an alcoholic?  I wasn't there and have no idea, but in answer to the original poster's question - Bushmills of course

It's a disease of the body, not of the psyche, like pedophilia.  Addiction to smoking is an addiction not a disease.  As any alcoholic who is in recovery can tell you, you never overcome it.  You are never recovered.  You are always recovering.  

I would suggest you stop in at an open AA meeting in order to broaden your knowledge of alcoholism and addiction some time.  It's very informative.  You get to learn the difference between the alcoholic and the normie, and so on.  

Yes, Jim was an alcoholic.  His family have acknowledged it.  Jim acknowledged it to me at the very least.  He could no more give up drinking than he could fly to the moon, though like all alcoholics, he said he could give it up any time he wanted to.  Yeah, right Jim!

[Bushmills]

It's a disease of the body, not of the psyche, like pedophilia.  Addiction to smoking is an addiction not a disease.  As any alcoholic who is in recovery can tell you, you never overcome it.  You are never recovered.  You are always recovering.  

I would suggest you stop in at an open AA meeting in order to broaden your knowledge of alcoholism and addiction some time.  It's very informative.  You get to learn the difference between the alcoholic and the normie, and so on.  

Yes, Jim was an alcoholic.  His family have acknowledged it.  Jim acknowledged it to me at the very least.  He could no more give up drinking than he could fly to the moon, though like all alcoholics, he said he could give it up any time he wanted to.  Yeah, right Jim!

What then differentiates smoking from alcohol in terms of addiction vs disease?  Nicotine is physically addictive just like alcohol, has detrimental physical effects just like alcohol, why then, would alcoholism classify as a disease and not smoking?  I smoked for years, but gave it up years ago, yet I still occasionally crave a cigarette.  My point here is that we can't arbitrarily classify something as a disease just because an advocacy or therapy group deems it such.

I would question whether a visit to AA would truly broaden my knowledge, or just give me a coloured perspective (which I arguably already have).  I would admittedly get an education of their methods, but truly, that's all they are - their methods; which thankfully work for some.  However, a holistic answer is more complicated than that.

I didn't argue or claim the fact that Jim wasn't an alcoholic - I said I never knew him, so I didn't know.  I just take umbrage with the fact that people use the word "disease" as a crutch, implying that they're helpless to overcome this self-imposed situation.  Cancer is a disease, Diabetes is a disease, drinking is a choice that can get out of control.

[mewsical]

What then differentiates smoking from alcohol in terms of addiction vs disease?  Nicotine is physically addictive just like alcohol, has detrimental physical effects just like alcohol, why then, would alcoholism classify as a disease and not smoking?  I smoked for years, but gave it up years ago, yet I still occasionally crave a cigarette.  My point here is that we can't arbitrarily classify something as a disease just because an advocacy or therapy group deems it such.

I would question whether a visit to AA would truly broaden my knowledge, or just give me a coloured perspective (which I arguably already have).  I would admittedly get an education of their methods, but truly, that's all they are - their methods; which thankfully work for some.  However, a holistic answer is more complicated than that.

I didn't argue or claim the fact that Jim wasn't an alcoholic - I said I never knew him, so I didn't know.  I just take umbrage with the fact that people use the word "disease" as a crutch, implying that they're helpless to overcome this self-imposed situation.  Cancer is a disease, Diabetes is a disease, drinking is a choice that can get out of control.

The medical profession would entirely disagree with you, as they recognize alcoholism is a disease of the brain.  Start with reading this, and then google 'alcoholism as a disease.'  There are many learned and educated professionals who also agree it is a disease.  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease_theory_of_alcoholism

I'll stick with them and with what I know personally.  Why you should take umbrage with people who recognize they have a disease instead of a moral weakness, as you seem to infer, I have no idea.  

[Bushmills]

The medical profession would entirely disagree with you, as they recognize alcoholism is a disease of the brain.  Start with reading this, and then google 'alcoholism as a disease.'  There are many learned and educated professionals who also agree it is a disease.  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease_theory_of_alcoholism

I'll stick with them and with what I know personally.  Why you should take umbrage with people who recognize they have a disease instead of a moral weakness, as you seem to infer, I have no idea.

Interesting, you have conveniently ignored my question - why is alcoholism a disease, and smoking is not?  Life is not lived by wikipedia, as it's wrong as often as it's right.  Again, perceptions and opinions don't make reality.

I take umbrage with the fact that people are too quick to find causes they're powerless to overcome - "it must be a disease, as I can't stop".  They make themselves powerless and find the latest buzz word and catch phrase to sum things up in a nice little package that they don't have to take accountability for.  We now have to understand and coddle.  I'm fat because I enjoy food - I don't have an eating disorder, it's not hereditary, and I don't have an underactive gland.  Life is a series of opportunity costs and choices we all make.  To me, calling alcoholism a disease is an insult to those with real diseases.  I'd like to see an alcoholic relate to a terminal cancer patient because they both have a "disease".

[mewsical]

Interesting, you have conveniently ignored my question - why is alcoholism a disease, and smoking is not?  Life is not lived by wikipedia, as it's wrong as often as it's right.  Again, perceptions and opinions don't make reality.

I invited you to also Google alcoholism as a disease to read professional papers, written by those who are equipped to answer your question with much more authority than I.  There's your reality.  Go argue with them, if you must.  You seem determined to fight with someone, but unfortunately, my dance card is full.

[Bushmills]

I invited you to also Google alcoholism as a disease to read professional papers, written by those who are equipped to answer your question with much more authority than I.  There's your reality.  Go argue with them, if you must.  You seem determined to fight with someone, but unfortunately, my dance card is full.

Not sure how you got the notion that I want to fight with someone.  I stated my opinion originally, you debated, and I responded.  Are you entitled to your opinion, but I'm not?  I'm not trying to be argumentative, but please outline what I've said that was combative in nature?

Also, you still have not answered my question.  Please don't misunderstand, I'm not fighting, just want to hear your answer.

[mewsical]

Not sure how you got the notion that I want to fight with someone.  I stated my opinion originally, you debated, and I responded.  Are you entitled to your opinion, but I'm not?  I'm not trying to be argumentative, but please outline what I've said that was combative in nature?

The tone of your first sentence, i.e. "you seem to have conveniently forgotten ..." sounds combative to me.  I did not 'conveniently forget' anything.  

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but when you haven't done much research on the subject, by your own admission, then your opinion lacks substance.  I have done research on the subject, long years before you raised it.  You then mocked Wikipedia and conveniently ignored the invitation to read professional papers on the subject of the disease of alcoholism, why the medical profession regards it as a disease, etc.  If you could perhaps do some reading on the subject, you might learn something to perhaps alter your opinion.