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When You’re Strange: A Film About The Doors?


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#61 Guest_TheWallsScreamedPoetry_*

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 04:02 AM

QUOTE (NP @ Jul 21 2010, 04:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LOL, come on. I think you're being a little nit-picky here. I don't see anything wrong w/ Tom's statement about the music/album art, Im sure Bill Harvey was familiar w/ The Doors music before he designed the cover, he more than likely had it in mind as he came up w/ his ideas.

That's a fair point and I mention that I do see some of what I say as nit picking.
But the point still stands that what DiCillo insinuates and the facts are a very distant relation. laugh.gif

Of course Bill was familiar with the band. I for one am not saying he wasn't. Simply saying that it was an accident as opposed to 'no accident' according to Tom that the cover was as it was.
Therefore poor narrative.
Bil himself says and I quote.....
" For the cover I did not want to have to deal with the group, it was too difficult.
I talked to them and they agreed on something Fellini-esque a troupe of strolling players idea."

This obviously a consequence of Jim and his put some dogs on the cover comment....it's better than having our fucking faces on it.
It's not a reflection of the music of Strange Days simply a reflection of Morrison and his dissatisfaction of the first cover which gives a completely different spin to the story than told by Tom......which I must point out leans more towards analysis than nit picking.........do you not agree? smile.gif


Lets look a bit deeper at the section of the film you describe as nit picking.
One of the central planks of DiCillos Morrison is that he was a self centred, attention needing, superficial character who survived on an audience.
This theme appears from the off in WYS with Jim's school letter describing him as self centred.
DiCillo says that it was no accident that Strange Days had the cover it had......but it was indeed an accident and there was a very good reason for that accident.

This self centred, attention seeking singer got rather peeved when he saw the debut LP cover and that he dwarfed the other three and as  a result argued against his face being on the second album.
Hence his dogs suggestion.....God spelt backwards .....better than having our fucking faces on it!

Now this was a pretty important moment and told Doors fans something about the singers character but would have completely blown DiCillos fatuous needy Jim Morrison into next month if he had told the true reason for SD having circus performers on the cover. Surely if Jim needed the buzz attention brought him having his face on an album cover would have satisfied that need? But it seems he was not that shallow. But of course DiCillo never reveals an irritating fact like that. ohmy.gif

The devil is in the detail and looking a bit deeper can sometimes tell a story that is hidden from view.

#62 Sacha

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 04:33 AM

I got my DVD last night in the mail smile.gif I will watch it tonight..

Anyways, maybe someone can confirm this..on the back of the video it mentions that there is a rare interview with Jim's father and they spelled his name: Admiral George C. Morrison, I was under the impression that it was Admiral George S. Morrison "S" for Stephen or Steve (as he was mostly called)

Anyone can confirm this info?

#63 Sacha

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 04:35 AM

Just found this on WIKI:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Stephen_Morrison

#64 gotothelight

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 05:00 AM

QUOTE (Sacha @ Jul 21 2010, 07:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I got my DVD last night in the mail smile.gif I will watch it tonight..

Anyways, maybe someone can confirm this..on the back of the video it mentions that there is a rare interview with Jim's father and they spelled his name: Admiral George C. Morrison, I was under the impression that it was Admiral George S. Morrison "S" for Stephen or Steve (as he was mostly called)

Anyone can confirm this info?

Admiral Morrison was indeed George S Morrison. It would've been nice if someone had've fact-checked this stuff before the DVD was released.
Interestingly enough, we kind of had this discussion once before.. when The Doors coffee table book (The Doors by The Doors came out).. and on the first page written by Jeff Jampol (Dedications and Acknowledgements).. Admiral Morrison's name was also wrongly stated as George C Morrison.
It leads me to believe that whoever did the back of the DVD simply took the wrong info that Jeff wrote in that book and slapped it on without fact-checking.

#65 Guest_TheWallsScreamedPoetry_*

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 05:20 AM

QUOTE (gotothelight @ Jul 21 2010, 05:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Admiral Morrison was indeed George S Morrison. It would've been nice if someone had've fact-checked this stuff before the DVD was released.
Interestingly enough, we kind of had this discussion once before.. when The Doors coffee table book (The Doors by The Doors came out).. and on the first page written by Jeff Jampol (Dedications and Acknowledgements).. Admiral Morrison's name was also wrongly stated as George C Morrison.
It leads me to believe that whoever did the back of the DVD simply took the wrong info that Jeff wrote in that book and slapped it on without fact-checking.

This is what happens when you put an idiot in charge laugh.gif  laugh.gif

The same happened with the 40 year remixes and a debut LP which features the MH version of Indian Summer instead of the 1966 original version.
A mistake that a Doors fan would not make but whoever was in charge of the 40 year mixes did manage to do.
Makes you wonder if they employ a troop of monkeys to do proof reading and checking out their album releases.
As soon as those words Jeff jampol are associated with anything Doors I get a cold feeling up my back.  laugh.gif

I know a man we could ask about this complete and utter incompetence...... laugh.gif

#66 Sacha

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 05:32 AM

They should give me the job of proof-reader hehehe

#67 gotothelight

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 05:56 AM

QUOTE (TheWallsScreamedPoetry @ Jul 21 2010, 09:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is what happens when you put an idiot in charge laugh.gif  laugh.gif

The same happened with the 40 year remixes and a debut LP which features the MH version of Indian Summer instead of the 1966 original version.
A mistake that a Doors fan would not make but whoever was in charge of the 40 year mixes did manage to do.
Makes you wonder if they employ a troop of monkeys to do proof reading and checking out their album releases.
As soon as those words Jeff jampol are associated with anything Doors I get a cold feeling up my back.  laugh.gif

I know a man we could ask about this complete and utter incompetence...... laugh.gif




While I agree that as the Doors manager Jeff should've checked this stuff out before wrong info was released, I would assume there's someone on the payroll who's job it is to proofread everything and correct any misstatements before this stuff gets out to the public. And whoever that person is.. they're obviously doing a poor job.

#68 Guest_TheWallsScreamedPoetry_*

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 06:00 AM

QUOTE (gotothelight @ Jul 21 2010, 05:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
While I agree that as the Doors manager Jeff should've checked this stuff out before wrong info was released, I would assume there's someone on the payroll who's job it is to proofread everything and correct any misstatements before this stuff gets out to the public. And whoever that person is.. they're obviously doing a poor job.


"as the Doors manager Jeff should've checked this stuff out before wrong info was released"
End of story...no arguments whatsoever..... sad.gif
All he has to do is read and listen....it's not as if he is being asked to build a space probe.
Prolly too busy designing a new shoe.

#69 gotothelight

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 06:08 AM

QUOTE (TheWallsScreamedPoetry @ Jul 21 2010, 10:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"as the Doors manager Jeff should've checked this stuff out before wrong info was released"
End of story...no arguments whatsoever..... sad.gif
All he has to do is read and listen....it's not as if he is being asked to build a space probe.
Prolly too busy designing a new shoe.

This brings to mind Alex what happened when the photo on the Official Doors Website depicted Ray, Robby, Jim.. and Paul Rothchild. Where was John? I sent numerous e-mails stating that it wasn't John in the photo.. and got replies back saying.. it was. Well um.. no.. it wasn't. I persisted.. and they finally said "oops"... and changed the photo to include John. (They didn't, to my recollection... put on a new photo which included John.. I believe they just took Paul 'out' of the photo and inserted John in....).

#70 Guest_TheWallsScreamedPoetry_*

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 06:47 AM

QUOTE (gotothelight @ Jul 21 2010, 07:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This brings to mind Alex what happened when the photo on the Official Doors Website depicted Ray, Robby, Jim.. and Paul Rothchild. Where was John? I sent numerous e-mails stating that it wasn't John in the photo.. and got replies back saying.. it was. Well um.. no.. it wasn't. I persisted.. and they finally said "oops"... and changed the photo to include John. (They didn't, to my recollection... put on a new photo which included John.. I believe they just took Paul 'out' of the photo and inserted John in....).

Jeff was a consultant in the WYS film and Mewsy wants people to blame him for the pic.....
I won't because DiCillo deserves all he gets for listening to such an idiot laugh.gif

I remember that photo Dianne ....shows how far The Doors have fallen since Danny became ill.....
the guy was far from perfect but I would trust my fave band with him, fit and well, anyday.....I wud not trust my rubbish bag with the current so called manager  laugh.gif

#71 gotothelight

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 09:15 AM

QUOTE (TheWallsScreamedPoetry @ Jul 21 2010, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Jeff was a consultant in the WYS film and Mewsy wants people to blame him for the pic.....
I won't because DiCillo deserves all he gets for listening to such an idiot laugh.gif

I remember that photo Dianne ....shows how far The Doors have fallen since Danny became ill.....
the guy was far from perfect but I would trust my fave band with him, fit and well, anyday.....I wud not trust my rubbish bag with the current so called manager  laugh.gif

Maybe Jim was forseeing the future in Miami when he said: "You're all a bunch of fuckin idiots"...

Your comment about how far The Doors have fallen since Danny became ill is .. spot on.. (isn't that what you Brits say? lol) He loved this band.. he loved Jim.. The Doors were more to him than just an avenue for the next big paycheck. He cared. Everything about The Doors meant something personally to him. This was his heart. And yes, I agree that he was far from perfect and he made mistakes, but the legacy of this band and of Jim Morrison was something he took great care to try and preserve with some integrity.

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 09:34 AM

QUOTE (gotothelight @ Jul 21 2010, 09:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Doors were more to him than just an avenue for the next big paycheck. He cared. Everything about The Doors meant something personally to him. This was his heart. And yes, I agree that he was far from perfect and he made mistakes, but the legacy of this band and of Jim Morrison was something he took great care to try and preserve with some integrity.

Amen to that.....makes you wonder what he would have made of the WYS film?
I know he gets stick for NOHGOA sometimes but my gut feeling is that we would not have this thread if Danny had been a consultant on this instead of Jeff.

#73 gotothelight

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 10:17 AM

QUOTE (TheWallsScreamedPoetry @ Jul 21 2010, 01:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Amen to that.....makes you wonder what he would have made of the WYS film?
I know he gets stick for NOHGOA sometimes but my gut feeling is that we would not have this thread if Danny had been a consultant on this instead of Jeff.

Yes, he sure does get stick for NOHGOA... most of which should be deposited squarely on the shoulders of Jerry Hopkins (who wrote the book) and Ray Manzarek (who had quite a heavy hand in editing it.) It still amazes me that Danny gets blamed for every piece of crap in that book.

You're probably right about us not having this thread had Danny been around to be a consultant... simply because the facts that Doors fans already know to be true would not have been so screwed up in the film. I really think that Danny instinctively knew more facts about the Doors than they know themselves.

#74 Helen

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 12:29 PM

QUOTE (gotothelight @ Jul 21 2010, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe Jim was forseeing the future in Miami when he said: "You're all a bunch of fuckin idiots"...

Your comment about how far The Doors have fallen since Danny became ill is .. spot on.. (isn't that what you Brits say? lol) He loved this band.. he loved Jim.. The Doors were more to him than just an avenue for the next big paycheck. He cared. Everything about The Doors meant something personally to him. This was his heart. And yes, I agree that he was far from perfect and he made mistakes, but the legacy of this band and of Jim Morrison was something he took great care to try and preserve with some integrity.



JM and Salli Stephenson interview:

Salli: OK...Miami...what was your state of mind when you went inot that?

J.M: ....I think....I was just fed upwith the image that had been created around me....which I sometimes consciously, most of the time unconsciously, cooperated with. It just got too much for me to really stomach and so I just put an end to it in one glorious evening

#75 mewsical

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 12:35 PM

QUOTE (TheWallsScreamedPoetry @ Jul 21 2010, 07:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Jeff was a consultant in the WYS film and Mewsy wants people to blame him for the pic.....
I won't because DiCillo deserves all he gets for listening to such an idiot laugh.gif

I remember that photo Dianne ....shows how far The Doors have fallen since Danny became ill.....
the guy was far from perfect but I would trust my fave band with him, fit and well, anyday.....I wud not trust my rubbish bag with the current so called manager  laugh.gif


He was a PRODUCER, not a consultant.  Now we're getting our facts mixed up.  He hired DiCillo, as did Dick Wolf.

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 12:41 PM

QUOTE (mewsical @ Jul 21 2010, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He was a PRODUCER, not a consultant.  Now we're getting our facts mixed up.  He hired DiCillo, as did Dick Wolf.

Not getting my facts mixed up at all ....I just don't care enough to be bothered.
Producer, tea boy, man in charge of the toilets......nothing to me as DiCillo is responsible for the film and Jampol is a nonentity.
And how exactly do you know Jeff hired Tom? smile.gif
You seem obsessed with DiCillo and trying to prove his innocence  laugh.gif
Unfortunately he is the best witness against you...  laugh.gif  laugh.gif

and BTW Jeff was a consultant on the film...as well as a producer....how do we know this?
Your boyfriend said so in an interview that is pasted here.

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 01:02 AM

Darkstar brings up a good point on the forum about how Morrison was perceived by the media especially when he gave interviews. He would sit and give an interviewer a fair shot and try to answer the questions then be dismayed to see just another hatchet job appear in magazine and newspaper.
His answers taken out of context and twisted to support the agenda of the writer.

DiCillos film reflects this and for me it's not all about 'what he says' in his film but about 'what he does not say' in his film that provides his slant and presents his Morrison.

For instance the point I made to NP when he accused me of nit picking with regards the cover of the second album.
At first glance it seems that way but look deeper and it is an example of the director using the 'not saying of something important' to support his own hypotheses.
Not saying something just as important as actually saying something.

Let me expand on that.
Throughout the film DiCillo presents a Morrison that is different to the one most Doors fans would agree to be the most definitive Morrison. Not in his drinking which was beyond dispute as was his sometimes difficult behaviour in the studio....although in another thread the causes of that behaviour is a matter of debate.

No what I am talking about is DiCillos 'needy' Morrison. A vain inadequate who was desperately in need of a strangers hand or in this case fed off his audience.
We see that Morrison at the beginning of the film ('One teacher sent home a note scolding him as self centred'), at the mid point (standing among fans and feeding from them ‘It’s hard to tell if he is simply mingling with his fans or if he is drawing something crucial from them as if he needs their attention to survive.") and even at the end of the film and Morrison's demise in Paris ('The solitude of the writer offers little of the kick he knows so well').

The seemingly throwaway comment about the Strange Days album cover hiding a deeper truth that is not mentioned as it would blow the needy perspective clean out of the water.

‘the organ features a hint of the carnival both childlike and darkly disturbing . It’s no accident that the 2nd album features circus performers on it’s cover’.

The album cover art rather than a reflection of the music a reflection of the attitude of Morrison to the way the record company was presenting him to an audience. His face dominating the cover of the debut LP. He was annoyed at that and fought against a similar band shot for the follow up LP.
Jokingly saying put some dogs on it and when asked why replied it's God spelt backwards.....better than having our fucking faces on it.
So this episode showed a different Morrison than the one presented in DiCillos film.
A Morrison that far from craving the adulation of his audience went to great lengths to be portrayed as on equal terms with his band mates. The famous incident when a DJ introduced the band as Jim Morrison & The Doors. Morrison went up to the DJ and said go back and introduce us properly.
Also Morrison at a party once pointed out Ray Manzarek to an admirer and said 'see that guy...he's The Doors'.
This not a portrait of a man that craved attention but of an artist who appreciated those who walked the same path he did and gave them due credit.

Not at all what DiCillo was presenting and by omission of certain facts he does as much disservice to the band and it's singer as he does with his ill informed biased made up fantasy narrative.

There is much to criticise about this film and a lot of it revolves around what was not said as what was said.
Seeking and finding a deeper truth sometimes involves looking with a keener eye and listening with a keener ear.
By picking nits it is sometimes possible to uncover and expose a darker agenda behind these things and for me DiCillo has one of those as he strives to paint a portrait of Jim Morrison and pass it off as truth when the evidence that disputes that portrait is ignored completely and twisted and trivialised.

So not only a lack of research and bad narrative but possibly deliberate exclusion or ignoring of evidence that would have contradicted the Morrison on show.

Not everything is black and white about this film and even the most inconsequential elements can bring you to a truth about it that reveals the director as the shallow inadequate rather than the subject.

#78 Sacha

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 04:58 AM

I watched the documentary last night…

I think it was OK, better than the Oliver Stone movie (if we’re making a comparison) but I still think that some facts were twisted or misinterpreted.

Bottom line is, I loved the scenes from HWY, crystal clear a real eye candy it seems like it was shot yesterday (minus all the old vintage cars on the road)

I think I would have like to see more footage of the boys in the beach house as shown in the beginning of the film, I would have like to see more never seen footage, more footage from recording sessions.. at some times I felt like I was watching a DVD that I have in my collection and I’ve seen it over and over.

For some reason the Ed Sullivan did not have the best picture quality (compared to the collector’s edition).

I really don’t like how they use that awesome card scene from the holiday inn, they used it to illustrate how Jim was feed up of being in the band?? What the hell was that about? They should have showed it the way it was intended…a few band mates having fun.

I also would have like to see more interviews from close friends and family.

I think my favourite part of the whole DVD is Jim’s father’s interview, although I think it’s a bit sad that it took him all theses years to appreciate his son’s talent. I think that part the fact that he was buried at Père la Chaise was a bit of an eye opener for him. Jim being a Rock star /poet was certainly not his cup of tea but I think in the end (long after Jim passed away) he finally ok with it.

I think Jim would have been touched that his dad left theses words for him:

“True to his own destiny”


#79 hollifer

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 06:41 AM

QUOTE (Sacha @ Jul 22 2010, 08:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I watched the documentary last night…

I think it was OK, better than the Oliver Stone movie (if we’re making a comparison) but I still think that some facts were twisted or misinterpreted.

Bottom line is, I loved the scenes from HWY, crystal clear a real eye candy it seems like it was shot yesterday (minus all the old vintage cars on the road)

I think I would have like to see more footage of the boys in the beach house as shown in the beginning of the film, I would have like to see more never seen footage, more footage from recording sessions.. at some times I felt like I was watching a DVD that I have in my collection and I’ve seen it over and over.

For some reason the Ed Sullivan did not have the best picture quality (compared to the collector’s edition).

I really don’t like how they use that awesome card scene from the holiday inn, they used it to illustrate how Jim was feed up of being in the band?? What the hell was that about? They should have showed it the way it was intended…a few band mates having fun.

I also would have like to see more interviews from close friends and family.

I think my favourite part of the whole DVD is Jim’s father’s interview, although I think it’s a bit sad that it took him all theses years to appreciate his son’s talent. I think that part the fact that he was buried at Père la Chaise was a bit of an eye opener for him. Jim being a Rock star /poet was certainly not his cup of tea but I think in the end (long after Jim passed away) he finally ok with it.

I think Jim would have been touched that his dad left theses words for him:

“True to his own destiny”


i also felt like i was watching much footage that i've seen before. the pristine footage of HWY was great, but they should devote an entire DVD just to that, along with interviews with the various persons involved with the project.

i don't recall seeing the card playing scene on the DVD. i've seen it on youtube. is it on another DVD? i absolutely love those scenes.

yes, there should have been more than the 2 interviews. where is andy and dylan? i think jim's dad has appreciated jim's talent for years, perhaps even while jim was still living. we're just seeing his comments onscreen now. jim's epitaph pretty much sums up that his dad 'got it' overall. they were just two very different people that presented some learning lessons for each other. i feel that we choose our challenges in life.

i prefer watching the collector's edition, myself. but, i still like this DVD.

#80 mewsical

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 06:52 AM

QUOTE (TheWallsScreamedPoetry @ Jul 21 2010, 01:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not getting my facts mixed up at all ....I just don't care enough to be bothered.
Producer, tea boy, man in charge of the toilets......nothing to me as DiCillo is responsible for the film and Jampol is a nonentity.
And how exactly do you know Jeff hired Tom? smile.gif
You seem obsessed with DiCillo and trying to prove his innocence  laugh.gif
Unfortunately he is the best witness against you...  laugh.gif  laugh.gif

and BTW Jeff was a consultant on the film...as well as a producer....how do we know this?
Your boyfriend said so in an interview that is pasted here.


Because the producer(s) hire the director.  Dick Wolf said he had hired Tom, therefore this was done after consulting the other producers.  Why do you keep fighting about this?  I am not 'trying to prove his innocence.'  This isn't a court-room.  
Tom is no more my 'boyfriend,' than Jim is yours.  I'll say one thing for Tom, despite all these faults he has according to you, he bloody well brought this film in and it's been nominated for an Emmy, whether you like it or not. You wouldn't even know where to begin to make a movie, imo.  It's easy-peasy to sit there and trash people, but my attitude is that if you haven't ever made a movie, and have no idea about how to make a movie, and have no idea what was really going on behind the scenes with this project, as opposed to whatever the PRODUCERS are feeding you, then your opinion is nothing more than what we call "Monday morning quarterbacking," and that's usually a lot of air.  





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